Author Topic: how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total f - up  (Read 9680 times)

Offline Steve

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #540 on: January 27, 2005, 08:26:11 PM »
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youd be wrong on clintons credibility globally. id put it next to dubya's anyday.


That's because you are a left wing whacko and would be willing to put the world's opinion ahead of what is best for America.
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Offline Steve

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #541 on: January 27, 2005, 08:26:57 PM »
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and gee, balancing the budget, stripping the deficit and reforming the welfare system, all conservative values btw, are just a little thing right? whatever steve. and all while repelling a which hunt by the kids who never got chicks in high school.



Just WTF are you talking about you farging nutjob?
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Offline Steve

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #542 on: January 27, 2005, 08:29:53 PM »
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do you know what percentage of americans are against us being there


Less than 50.  Do you know what percentage of Iraqi's are glad to have us?  An overwhelming majority.   It was the right thing to do, you just don't llike it because Clinton and your fellow left wing nutjobs lacked the balls to make the decision.  You'd be happy to do nothing until terrorists acquired nukes and then started blowing up cities en masse.  Then you would try to blame America.

You're an absolute nutcase, I preaise God there are enough voters to keep people with your beliefs out of power, and those with my beliefs in power.  Take it, whacko.
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Offline Raider179

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #543 on: January 27, 2005, 09:34:29 PM »
also do you think that because we invaded Iraq we made it harder for terrorists to get nukes?

Edited for incorrect information
« Last Edit: January 27, 2005, 09:56:31 PM by Raider179 »

Offline Holden McGroin

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #544 on: January 27, 2005, 09:39:09 PM »


The poll you linked to asks whether we made a mistake sending them there in the first place.  It does not say what percentage thinks troops are required to stay to clean up.
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Offline patrone

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #545 on: January 27, 2005, 09:51:42 PM »
Well saying "no" would actully mean 1400 soldiers died in vain and 300 billion dollar down the drain.

Pretty "hardboiled" stuff

Offline Raider179

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #546 on: January 27, 2005, 09:55:02 PM »
yep your right misread that one

does say that 46% favor withdrawing Some or All the troops.

Offline JB88

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republican chairman roberts agrees
« Reply #547 on: January 30, 2005, 01:49:33 AM »
Roberts says insurgency will continue, questions Iraqi democracy
   

TOPEKA, Kan. -- Iraqi insurgents are likely to continue attacks after elections, Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Pat Roberts said Friday. He also questioned whether American intervention can create democracy there.

Roberts, R-Kan., said he is concerned that majority Shiites, who make up 60 percent of the population, will dominate the new Iraqi government after Sunday's balloting and the new government will form an alliance with Iran, where Shiites also are in the majority.

The senator said he expects that insurgents "will not let up," particularly if Shiite turnout is high and Sunni turnout is low. Under former President Saddam Hussein, Sunnis dominated politics; Sunni insurgents are battling U.S. and Iraqi forces.

"I don't think you can lay down democracy in a country in rocky soil like so much Astroturf," Roberts said.

Roberts spoke to an audience of about 150 Kansas business leaders and legislators during a forum sponsored by the Kansas Chamber of Commerce.

"We are in for some very challenging times," Roberts said. "If we are not successful, what kind of message does that send to the insurgents? What kind of message does that send to al-Qaida?"

In a brief interview later, Roberts said: "I think the insurgency will continue in its murderous way to just completely put aside the election, more especially if the Shiites turn out 80 percent, which is I think is probably a fair number."

Roberts said he hopes the new government will be "pluralistic," but added, "It's possible, but not very probable."

Meanwhile, in speaking to the same audience, Rep. Jim Ryun, R-Kan., said he is not concerned about low turnout in Sunday's elections, adding that only a third of American colonists supported breaking away from England as the American Revolution began.

He said that although Iraq remains dangerous, Iraqis have freedoms that didn't exist when Saddam was in power.

Even Roberts said, "This is the first election they've ever had, so let's hope for the best."

But Roberts said Sunni turnout is likely to be depressed by threats of violence from the insurgents, and that troubles him.

"I don't want to see a situation where the Shia just completely dominates the situation and then joins at the hip with Iran, who is also Shia," he said. "Then you have a crescent of influence with two Muslim countries with Shia dominance that not would be in the best interest of the United States."

Roberts said he is concerned about an alliance because Iran has resisted democratic reforms.
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Offline genozaur

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #548 on: January 30, 2005, 09:26:25 AM »
Holding an all-Iraqi elections at present state of internal affairs in rebellious regions of Iraq (notably Sunni opposition) has been the moronic proposal. Now it is a moronic reality.

Iraq can survive as a united country only if it's a federated state, kinda  'Iraqi Soviet Union' or 'Iraqi Bundesrepublik' (at best). Not the 'United States of Iraq'.

Give the guys some time for the autonomous self-rule (regional elections) AND ONLY AFTER THAT the general elections. This can work. But the general elections held within a relatively short time-span after the start of the occupation of Iraq DO NOT LOOK and ARE NOT the best thing to do right now.

The problem is that the USA walks on Iraqi lands in the British boots.

Thank you, the British Empire !  :D

Offline Gunslinger

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #549 on: January 30, 2005, 10:54:22 AM »
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Originally posted by genozaur
Holding an all-Iraqi elections at present state of internal affairs in rebellious regions of Iraq (notably Sunni opposition) has been the moronic proposal. Now it is a moronic reality.
 


really....do you actually read the news?

Offline JB88

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #550 on: January 30, 2005, 11:20:29 AM »
in his defense, i am guessing that he not only reads the news, but reads non US news sources which have had a markedly differing viewpoint than the american media on these matters.

that is not to say that he is right or wrong...but what are you most interested in...putting him down or learning what he means?

are you reading other news?  

are you trying to see it from another perspective?

no offense meant gunslinger, but what would happen if you just asked him what he meant and listened?

surely you wouldnt get cooties?

would you?
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Offline Raider179

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #551 on: January 30, 2005, 11:47:34 AM »
I thought that was this was. An election to set up the 276 person council or whatever. then those guys elect another council. and that council picks the new leader. sounds like electoral congress to me. And timing is good. They needed something over their to lift the spirits of the people and the troops and I think they got it. Good job to all those involved over there from the voters to the soldiers.

on a 2nd note I read the same type article Genz on Aljazeera.net it was an op-ed and they said basically the same thing. I got the idea though that it wouldnt matter when we held them it would have been the wrong time.

Offline Gunslinger

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #552 on: January 30, 2005, 01:13:04 PM »
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Originally posted by JB88
in his defense, i am guessing that he not only reads the news, but reads non US news sources which have had a markedly differing viewpoint than the american media on these matters.

that is not to say that he is right or wrong...but what are you most interested in...putting him down or learning what he means?

are you reading other news?  

are you trying to see it from another perspective?

no offense meant gunslinger, but what would happen if you just asked him what he meant and listened?

surely you wouldnt get cooties?

would you?


you make a good point but to call free elections moronic and witnessing it today calling it a moronic reality is well....moronic.  

To hear the tails of happiness from people who get to vote for their leaders for the first time in over 50 years is a happy heart warming tail.

Secondly, To witness the lackluster atempts made  on the polling places brings me hope that the insurgancy's back is in fact broken (but not out of the fight)  Zarquai (SP) promised the elections would not go forward and they did....he has lost this battle....the iraqis have won it.

"the mob IS rome"  and today the Mob decided......  Just my opinion

Offline genozaur

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #553 on: January 30, 2005, 11:28:44 PM »
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Originally posted by patrone
Nothing will change because they change the Secretary General and I really doubt Clinton would fit


No doubt. Clinton fits all.

Offline genozaur

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how iraq was, is, and shall continue to be a total mess
« Reply #554 on: January 30, 2005, 11:43:25 PM »
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Originally posted by JB88
well, i think that he has a semi-populous viewpoint, that he has the ability to integrate differing opinions and seems to do well with absorbing different ideologies.  the man is intelligent obviosly and has a way of rebounding when put down.  

hes an optimist which helps, and i think that the world could some of that.

now, i hope that this isnt going to turn into a clinton bash, because we had eight years of that and ive had pretty much enough of it ya know?  

i understand what his shortcomings were as president, though i do not share the whole "slick willy" view that many of the right wing elements did.

i think that clinton has the gravitas to lend credibility to the organization and get some things done.

he has had a pretty good perspective for a base from which to jump.


Not a too bad read.
Yet the words "no initial occupation plan" must be supplemented with the clarification "no sound ocupation plan whatsoever".