Author Topic: China/Taiwan (Read 4013 times)

patrone · « **Reply #120 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:27:16 AM »

Poor China, they would have to use their own technology cause of the western weapon enbargo against them.

But don´t be in despair, all that is changing. Soon they will have some Patriots as well.....

You know, you can buy anything with money

Raider179 · « **Reply #121 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:31:48 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by weaselsan
Actually it's the props you hear. where we had a large advantage until Mitsubishi sold the technology. But we'll leave that for a different thread.

If a sub doesn't engage it's batteries...it doesn't move??

As I said earlier... to many if's for China to attempt an invasion.
losses would make it not worth the attempt.

1) "Several mechanisms for noise radiation from the submarine exist, which are more or less prevalent depending on the frequency band, speed and depth of the submarine. Among these mechanisms are hull vibration, power plant equipment, propellers and flow noise (hydrodynamic noise)." its not just propellers

2) not what I said but you can try to change my words...A diesel sub can not go silent without engaging the batteries. Diesels are particulary noisy pieces of equipment.

3) ever heard of an invasion that wasnt full of if's?

weaselsan · « **Reply #122 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:35:52 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
A hundred and fifty Su-27/30/30MKK and 24 MiG-31s + AWACS is not a a "capable, modern airforce" to you Nuke?

Not enough to invade Taiwan and loss half of them in the first week. They would need air superiority for that...and it ain't gonna happen. Which is why we are discussing it on this BB and China has made no moves toward Formosa. As I said earlier they would have moved long ago if there was the slightest possiblity to take Taiwan.

Just what China needs in it's attempt to modernize...an arms race with Taiwan....

NUKE · « **Reply #123 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:37:49 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
A hundred and fifty Su-27/30/30MKK and 24 MiG-31s + AWACS is not a a "capable, modern airforce" to you Nuke?

Those are great planes, but compaired to the USAF, Israel, Taiwan, no they do not have a modern AF overall.....yet.

Siaf__csf · « **Reply #124 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:41:29 AM »

Nuke is bolted to his Cloud9. He won't fall, so don't even try it.

weaselsan · « **Reply #125 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:41:53 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
The (only) real advantage of diesel/electric boats over nuke-boats are their capability to shut down everything and literally be invisible to passive sensors.

LOL....I heard a russian sailor on one of there typhoon class subs fart from over 50 miles away. Must of been too much Borsh...

weaselsan · « **Reply #126 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:48:01 AM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Sure you did ...

Trust me ....we knew where every single one was...still do.. they are always top priority and are in ASROC or attack sub range. ASROC's are nuclear armed.

NUKE · « **Reply #127 on:** January 23, 2005, 11:50:10 AM »

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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Nuke is bolted to his Cloud9. He won't fall, so don't even try it.

Actually, I'm discussing things in a reasonable manner. Actually happy to see GS acting resonable towards me too.

People like you are the idiots. You have nothing to add to the discussion and did not refute anything I have said. Instead you pop in with an insult against me.

At least I have the guts to voice my opinions and argue a point.

weaselsan · « **Reply #128 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:01:50 PM »

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Originally posted by Raider179
1) "Several mechanisms for noise radiation from the submarine exist, which are more or less prevalent depending on the frequency band, speed and depth of the submarine. Among these mechanisms are hull vibration, power plant equipment, propellers and flow noise (hydrodynamic noise)." its not just propellers

2) not what I said but you can try to change my words...A diesel sub can not go silent without engaging the batteries. Diesels are particulary noisy pieces of equipment.

3) ever heard of an invasion that wasnt full of if's?

If a diesel submarine is using diesel power it is on the surface...you don't have to listen for it you can clearly see it. You know...that long gray thing with the conning tower.

China pays careful attention to the if's...there are to many for them to attempt an invasion they would lose far more than they could possibly gain. They are now attempting to modernize. The last thing they need is an arms race with Taiwan.

Raider179 · « **Reply #129 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:24:30 PM »

Beat me to it Scholz... and 1 foot by 2 foot tube sticking out of the ocean is a lot harder to spot and I wouldnt imagine the chinese sub commanders going to the surface with enemy ships in the area

Arms race is exactly what they are doing.... Trying to buy backfires from russia and awacs from isreal.

also I think china can afford to lose a few hundred thousand troops storming the beaches...they do have the manpower.

anyone seen any info on chinese paratroops?Do they exist?

weaselsan · « **Reply #130 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:25:54 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Yes and how many diesels did you track? That was kind of my point you know.

ROTFLMAO...Diesels....dude where have you guys been? One LA class submarine (that's One) has more firepower and destructive capacity aboard than was fired by all sides in four years of world war II. The Typhoon class is the Soviet version. They are both Nuclear (They never surface). The cold war was spent attempting to locate these weapons and should war break out to take them out first. Hence the importance of silence. ( It's how they found each other. We used various means, and it still goes on today. I was being facisous about the fart, just pointing out how sensitive some of it became. We have listening devices in the oceans that constantly monitor the waters and until the typhoon got the technology (with the help of Misubishi) was very noisy.

weaselsan · « **Reply #131 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:29:58 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Weaselsan, how long ago did you serve anyways? The Germans invented the schnorkel during WWII ... everybody has kind of been using them since.

Also, you seem to think we're talking about blue water operation and open sea here. Diesels operate from their coastal hideouts, and strike out to sea when someone comes close enough. The Chinese diesel fleet can pretty much close off the Taiwanese Strait whenever they want.

OHHHHH what a hoot...the Taiwanese are shakeing in their shoes over some absolete diesel subs. I wonder if there aware of how much trouble there in....

Raider179 · « **Reply #132 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:34:48 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by weaselsan
ROTFLMAO...Diesels....dude where have you guys been? One LA class submarine (that's One) has more firepower and destructive capacity aboard than was fired by all sides in four years of world war II. The Typhoon class is the Soviet version. They are both Nuclear (They never surface). The cold war was spent attempting to locate these weapons and should war break out to take them out first. Hence the importance of silence. ( It's how they found each other. We used various means, and it still goes on today. I was being facisous about the fart, just pointing out how sensitive some of it became. We have listening devices in the oceans that constantly monitor the waters and until the typhoon got the technology (with the help of Misubishi) was very noisy.

No one is doubting the firepower of a U.S. submarine.

No one is discussing locating nuclear subs so that whole thing is pointless. Nuclear subs are louder than subs running on batteries.

So you do believe America would intervene?

Gotta go watch eagles falcons...I am torn...long time eagles fan but live in atlanta for last couple years. Guess I cant lose either way.

lada · « **Reply #133 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:47:05 PM »

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Originally posted by NUKE
They do not have everything we have, other than stealth. Not even close. They are considered about 20 years behind the US in military technology.

You are far overesitmating the overall capabilites of the Chinese military today. 15 or 20 years from now, maybe.

actualy they dont need crap like F117 or B2. Since russian invented dope, whitch have similary effect.

Btw you still belive that F117 is some stealth ?

weaselsan · « **Reply #134 on:** January 23, 2005, 12:49:17 PM »

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Originally posted by GScholz
Weaselsan ... what the hell are you talking about? You're completely full of chit!

LA class is not a boomer ... Typhoon is not an attack sub. Please buy a clue, and hang up the phone to God, because he must be smoking pot again.

LOL...never said they where the boomers...they can carry tomohawk land attack missles (nuclear tipped) that alone has more destructive capacity than everything that was fired in four years of WWII. They hunted down the typhoons (It was their job)

What planet you been living on that let's you think some antiquated rusty diesel subs have got the taiwanese Navy worried was what I was wondering.