Go ahead Russia, no one will blame you

[ATA]

Ok,may be you should start reading.
I was adressing to NUKE,NOT you.HE called me moron NOT you.
Now tell me that it was not US that started that shi@.
Instead of saying that i was wrong you telling me about politenes.
No more of that polite crap.
Every american who has russian freinds,would tell you to go F### yourself.
You dont know us,so F## off

[Toad]

Originally posted by genozaur
When Russian people are engaged in a war against a mercyless enemy, they know that it is criminally stupid to let that enemy enjoy the privilege of gentlemen's rules of war.

[/b]

And just what does rapine and the murder of prisoners with hands tied behind their backs gain for the Russian people? Do tell.

Is raping the enemies women some sort of advanced military tactic?

In this respect I can reiterate the anekdote about a British general who crushed a Muslim 'independence' uprising somewhere in the South-East Asia using simple and effective "strategy".

[/b]

Sigh. That anecdote supposedly refers to General Pershing fighting against the Moros in the Phillipines.

Here, Snopes is your friend.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm

You are against such measures.

[/b]

Really? I am? And how do you know that? I said I was against brutality, such as what the Chechens and Russians have been doing to each other.
 
Anything more than that is an ASSumption on your part.

As Nashwan said though:

The problem when you get that attitude is you've entered a circle of atrocities. The Russians justify their actions because of what the Chechen's have done, the Chechen's justify their actions because of what the Russians have done.

Saying it's a war zone, therefore ok, misses the point, I think.

I'm fairly sure the Chechen parents who've lost their children won't simply shrug it off because their children were killed in "a war zone".

There is no justification for atrocities, and giving "permission" for a new set because of the previous set is only going to perpetuate matters.

[Wolfala]

Toad,

Its war - **** happens. And while we may try to strive for ways to prevent it from happening, the wrong people get killed - lives get shattered - and that is the way it has always been - and that is the way it will remain.

So unless you have some overarching solution to correct human nature irrespective of what nationality and doctrine of conflict is used - bite your tongue.

You are not impressing anyone.

Respectfully,

Wolf

[genozaur]

Originally posted by Toad


And just what does rapine and the murder of prisoners with hands tied behind their backs gain for the Russian people? Do tell.

Is raping the enemies women some sort of advanced military tactic?


[/b]

Sigh. That anecdote supposedly refers to General Pershing fighting against the Moros in the Phillipines.

Here, Snopes is your friend.

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pershing.htm


[/b]

Really? I am? And how do you know that? I said I was against brutality, such as what the Chechens and Russians have been doing to each other.
 
Anything more than that is an ASSumption on your part.


As Nashwan said though: [/B]

Toad, don't you understand that the Chechen "freedom fighters" are inhumane killers ?

The alternative to 'brutality, such as what the Chechens and Russians have been doing to each other' is the brutality by the Chechens against the Russians.
 To preach for mutual humanism in this conflict is like accusing the soldiers of the Soviet and American armies in mistreatment of SS guards in the liberated by the Allies Nazi death camps.

[ATA]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem when you get that attitude is you've entered a circle of atrocities. The Russians justify their actions because of what the Chechen's have done, the Chechen's justify their actions because of what the Russians have done.

Saying it's a war zone, therefore ok, misses the point, I think.

I'm fairly sure the Chechen parents who've lost their children won't simply shrug it off because their children were killed in "a war zone".

There is no justification for atrocities, and giving "permission" for a new set because of the previous set is only going to perpetuate matters.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now we need to find out who started first.
Toad said something about red army being brutal in WW2.
He still thing 30 million dead is not a good reason.
I'm sure all of those who never came back were fathers,sons,mothers exe.
Same goes to iraq,same goes to 'nam,same goes to any war.
People like him never understood what is a war.
He thinks people fight with peper spray or some shi# like that.
Like germans never raped russian women or kids,like Chechnians never torchured russians just for fun.

[Toad]

Gen,

Don't you understand that trying to be more brutal than the the Chechens makes the Russians into the same kind of animals they accuse the Chechens of being?

You have become your enemy.

ATA,

There is no justification for unnecessary brutality. There's no way you can justify what the Red Army did to the women of Germany.

The Red Army became as bad as the Germans were.

Really something to be proud of, eh? They became as animalistic as the Nazis.

You two sound as foolish and wretched as I would if I were spouting off about how the Vietnamese at My Lai deserved what they got. They didn't. It was WRONG.

It's wrong when the Chechens do it, it's wrong when the Russians do it, it's wrong when anyone does it.

You've become as inhuman as the Chechens. Congratulations!

[ATA]

There is no justification for unnecessary brutality. There's no way you can justify what the Red Army did to the women of Germany.
We became as bad as germans?
We didnt invade Germany,they invaded us.They raped our women they killed our fathers,and yet we let them live.
We didnt kill our prisoners,just couse they germans.
Again you judging people that you know nothing about.
Look at pictures of WW2,massive graves,death camps imagine yourself loosing every one of your relatives.
This is the first time you didnt recomdened me to read a book,
we making progress.
Anyway you have you opinion,i have mine.There no way it will change:)i think this thread is done for,this argument can last forever.

[Siaf__csf]

it looks to me like that's about your only hope of having sex with anything other than a runimant animal.

Were you referring directly to NUKE there Toad?

[Toad]

Well, Nuke is clearly not a ruminant animal. But I don't think he's going to help ATA.

ATA, with that personality, should probably be looking for velcro gloves.

[Toad]

Originally posted by ATA
We became as bad as germans?

In some ways, yes.  

Originally posted by ATA
We didnt invade Germany,they invaded us.They raped our women they killed our fathers,and yet we let them live.

You seem to subscribe to the "eye for an eye" school of making a better world. I'm with sure your extensive........ use.......... of history books you might have figured out this isn't a very good way for society to progress.

Yes, they invaded, they raped, they killed your fathers... and in your overwhelming magnitude, you let them live.

Of course, you counter-invaded them, raped their women just as heartily as they raped yours and you killed their fathers as fast as you could.  

You became your enemy.

Tell me, how much money did the Soviet Union spend rebuilding East Germany after the war? Is this one over your head? Should I suggest a book?

Originally posted by ATA
We didnt kill our prisoners,just couse they germans.

So why DID you kill your prisoners?

The Poles at Katyn weren't Germans but the NKVD slaughtered about 25,000 Poles at three different sites in 1940. These were Polish service personnel that had been taken prisoner when the Soviet Union invaded Poland in September 1939.

Why did the Russians kill those Poles?

(Hey, why was it OK for you guys to invade Poland in the first place? Why did you invade them, rape their women and kill their fathers?)

The Germans treated Russian POW's inhumanly. Millions of Russian POW's died while in German captivity.

So what did the Russias do? Why they became their enemy, of course. They sank to the level of the Nazis.

The Soviets didn't kill their prisoners because they were Germans? Sure they did. They killed German prisoners in revenge for what Germans did to Russian prisoners.

The Soviets took ferocious revenge on the millions of POWs who fell into their hands during the war. Many were simply executed; most were sent to concentration camps where they died of exposure, starvation, and overwork.

German POWs (along with Romanians, Italians, and others) "were [not] treated even remotely in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Thousands froze to death and starved on the march or in unheated cattle trucks, and once in camps they were treated as slave labor. Heat, shelter, and clothing were all inadequate, diseases such as typhus were rampant, and food was so scarce that on occasion cannibalism occurred.

In all, at least one million German prisoners died out of the 3,150,000 taken by the Red Army." (S.P. MacKenzie, "The Treatment of Prisoners of War in World War II," The Journal of Modern History, 66: 3 [September 1994], p. 511.)

Originally posted by ATA
Again you judging people that you know nothing about.

Again, you're speaking as if you're totally unaware of your own history. Or else you've joined Boroda in Communist la-la land.

Originally posted by ATA
Look at pictures of WW2,massive graves,death camps imagine yourself loosing every one of your relatives.

7 out of 7 men in my family were in the service in WW2. One died at St. Lo after Normandy, the rest came home.

But the Russians are the only ones that suffered in WW2? Suffered so much that they had to slaughter and rape like the Nazis?

Look at pictures of WW2,massive graves,death camps imagine yourself loosing every one of your relatives.

Originally posted by ATA
This is the first time you didnt recomdened me to read a book,
we making progress.
 

We?

You'll make progress when you start actually reading them.

I might suggest to you that you'll do better of in these discussions if you don't immediately suggest that people perform a sexual act on you and if YOU don't immediately suggest that anyone who disagrees with you needs to "read a book".

Originally posted by ATA
Anyway you have you opinion,i have mine.There no way it will change:)i think this thread is done for,this argument can last forever.

Yeah, you have quite an opinion there. The argument can last for as long as you choose to make it obvious you need to read some books.

[Siaf__csf]

Toad be careful when you say 'read a book.'

I'd prefer the term 'a book from western reliable sources.'

[ATA]

Oh my GOD!Even first killer Erich Hartman made it back to Germany.He should have been shot on sight.

[ATA]

But the Russians are the only ones that suffered in WW2? Suffered so much that they had to slaughter and rape like the Nazis?
Believe it,yes they suffered that much.
And yes,nobody syffered as much as russians in ww2.
They deserved that revenge.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Toad be careful when you say 'read a book.'

I'd prefer the term 'a book from western reliable sources.'

 

You've probably noted an excellent point there. Could explain everything.

[Toad]

Originally posted by ATA
Oh my GOD!Even first killer Erich Hartman made it back to Germany.He should have been shot on sight.

Why? Because he was a good fighter pilot?