Author Topic: how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?  (Read 2878 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2005, 03:13:12 PM »
Very simple:

The Spitfire V turns better, has much better guns, and has much better medium to high speed handling plus it really isnt all that much slower.

Offline Sikboy

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2005, 03:30:02 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by 2stony
Ki-841b? How about the "c" model. Basically a faster version of the Niki with the same guns.



I'd Much rather have the 4x Ho-5 cannons over the 4x Tpye 99II cannons.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

VWE

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2005, 03:46:10 PM »
Quote
I have simply been trying to improve my performance in other planes the last two tours. Limiting myself to 1 or 2 planes was seriously hampering me and I decided to push myself to get back into shape in more planes.


Here's a tip... stay outa the Wildcat in the CT. :D

Offline Oldman731

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2005, 03:52:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by VWE
Here's a tip... stay outa the Wildcat in the CT. :D

Heh.  Wildcat is The Bomb.

- oldman

Offline SunKing

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2005, 03:55:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
When it is modelled to represent it's actual performance it will see use.



Not a flame...


 How is it supposed to fly? More like a 190? I have a heck of a time with this plane coming apart in a slight dive.

Offline ghi

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2005, 03:57:44 PM »
Ki84 and new P38s,-- i don't like the gauges, hard to read them

Offline ccvi

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2005, 04:13:08 PM »
Apart from the upside-down altimeter it rocks.

Offline Mitsu

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #22 on: February 07, 2005, 04:58:43 PM »
No mass production in the -1c. prototypes only.

Offline DoctorYO

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #23 on: February 07, 2005, 05:08:24 PM »
I appreciate everyones input on this...  was curious to others thoughts on this aircraft..

I think the Ki 84 is a superior aircraft:

excellent fuel duration.......

excellent acceleration

cannon package though some dont like it, seems far superior to most (i fly the 20mm 109 so anything 2 cannon is good...) considering the gunsight and very good overall view..

Dives well when you keep in her parameters.  (hint I dont excede 450 mph IAS {indicated air speed} when diving or otherwise even though she'll do about 460+ before breakup...{limited testing she has never broke under 450 yet.....})

wep system is very powerful when used properly...  (considering it's turn and burn capability you should decel by not using wep/throttle chop to get better turn radii and to race till flap usage, then wep out back up to speed and repeat as necessary to run them down...)

Overall im 11-0 K/D in it..   feels very strong to me.. at least spit 9  level or better when you understand it's quirks....

We'll just keep this thread top secret... (so the lemmings don't drone the Ki 84  to its death)

Again thanks for the replies.


DoctorYo


PS there are alternatives to the La7 (noobs)  that fare well against it... IMO the Ki 84 does it well........

Offline Pongo

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #24 on: February 07, 2005, 05:15:17 PM »
I have not flown it much but I found it very effective. It accelarates so quicky that it scissors alot different then other aircraft.
I personaly think the interior hurts this plane.  very hard to read dials and kind of ugly interior frames make me want to fly it less. The 38 seems way better implemented.

It is a very interesting plane thought. Lots of range, enough speed, more than enough climb and turn. Ok views..good plane I think.

storch

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2005, 05:16:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
Not a flame...


 How is it supposed to fly? More like a 190? I have a heck of a time with this plane coming apart in a slight dive.


It should be faster than the Pony, It should out turn the Pony as well.

Offline MOSQ

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2005, 05:19:11 PM »
I've been flying it a lot. I've been pretty successful. It's my #1 choice now for pure fighter, and attacker unless I'm going into a one vs many attack at a far off enemy base. In that case it's too slow to survive the inevitibale horde of LA-7s and 109G10s that will give chase.

In answer to your question I think there are two reasons:

Gauges
Flaps


1) As others have said, the gauges are awful. I have started threads on this subject before. I'll say it again, the gauges are nearly unreadable for me. Charcoal grey backgrounds with slightly whiter needles, fuzzy, miniscule fonts, upside down altimeter....it goes on and on. It has been suggested that HTC allow or create a custom skin for the cockpit guages, that way the realism crowd can have their gauges and the rest of us can see them!

My less than perfect solution: I don't look at the gauges hardly ever anymore. I keep the E6B always out on my clipboard and have the clipboard toggled to a button on my JS. The only two things I really care about are Speed and Fuel, both of which are on the E6B.  The Altimeter is still a problem though.

2) The KI-84 is a great plane above 225 and below 150. Between 150 and 225 you are in the soon to be dead zone. The reason is all the US planes have those great flaps that give very good turn ability from 250 down. And the Spit doesn't need flaps to turn great at 175. However at 175 the KI-84 turns like a dog. It trys to snap roll, it's unstable. At 150 the flaps come out and now you're cooking with gas! I'll stall fight with anything once I get those darn flaps to go out.

However if you pick up a bit of speed....Autoretract on flaps! Instability hits and you have to be careful to not snap roll. OIO can relate to this complaint......

My solution. Fight it as an E fighter most of the time. But I don't back away from any 1v1 fight if they want to make it a stall fight. I just know that when the speed gets to 220 or so, I HAVE to slow the fight to 140 asap! My typical solution is to go nose high spiral climb to scrub off speed. At 150 mph I pop flaps and the fight is mine. I don't think I've lost a 1v1 fight yet once it's gotten down to co-E, flaps out, time. A lot of planes have dove away when they realize what's happening though.

I had some great fights with Pellik last week in his P-38. The Ki-84 vs P-38 fight is a classic, both in terms of flight models and in terms of the real life combats from WWII. They were some of the best fights I've had in the last year.

Now a question for the KI-84 real history folks:

Was the real KI-84 unable to deploy flaps above 150?  When you look at them, the first notch looks like high speed fowler flaps on a P-51, or at least a P-38. You'd think the first notch could deploy just like a P-38 at moderate speeds. If they could, then the KI-84 would be one great ride!
« Last Edit: February 07, 2005, 05:34:57 PM by MOSQ »

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #27 on: February 07, 2005, 05:21:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by storch
It should be faster than the Pony, It should out turn the Pony as well.


Agreed.  But I think that is a problem with the modelling on the US planes, not the Ki-84.  I'm reserving judgement until they remodel the older planeset and tweak them.  I'm really hoping for some less uber P-51s and P-47s.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2005, 05:23:36 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by SunKing
Not a flame...


 How is it supposed to fly? More like a 190? I have a heck of a time with this plane coming apart in a slight dive.


Keep the plane below 450 and dont pull more than 3G's.  There is enough drag there that just chopping the throttle off is enough to keep your speed down in a dive.

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2005, 05:29:44 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Very simple:

The Spitfire V turns better, has much better guns, and has much better medium to high speed handling plus it really isnt all that much slower.


I have to disagree.  You get somebody who understands the way the flaps work in the Frank, and can work the throttle to get it slow enough for flap deployment, the SpitV will get munched in a heartbeat.  Now I admit, that little area from about 175 down to 150 to get the flaps out requires some delicate handling or you'll stall it out.  But all it takes is a little practice.  As for the guns issue, I have not done any real tests on lethality of one vs the other, so I cant say.  I can say that the Ki-84's guns are lethal enough, I've shredded more than one formation of B-24's in one, and it has the tools to do the job.  Better or not than a SpitV I cant say.