Author Topic: how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?  (Read 2872 times)

Offline Dead Man Flying

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2005, 12:47:13 PM »
I suspect that the Ki-84 would see quite a bit more use if they increased its ENY value substantially.  Right now, it has an ENY of 15 (the same as a Seafire), so when the ENY limiter kicks in and kills the last of the Hispano-armed Spits, it also kills the Ki-84.  

I suspect that increasing its ENY to 20 or 25 would produce a lot of Ki-84 flying when one side faces ENY penalties.  In addition, the closeness of the performance between the Spit V and the Ki-84 (one a better turner, the other faster; both well-rounded) might push more players toward the Ki-84 if they desire more perk points.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Pongo

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2005, 01:28:25 PM »
Is the ENY limiter still on?

Offline Dead Man Flying

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2005, 01:40:48 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Pongo
Is the ENY limiter still on?


Yep.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline Mitsu

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2005, 03:11:14 PM »
Levi's SpitV ENY value is 0.5...

Offline eagl

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2005, 03:24:08 PM »
First, I've been flying the ki-84 almost exclusively since it came out and I like it.  However...

It turns like crap until you get very very slow and can deploy flaps.  That means that most players will never "get the hang of" flying it.  It isn't fast enough, a good enough climber, or hard hitting enough to excel as a BnZ platform, it's not as damage resistant as comparable US or german aircraft either.  It's poor pitch response at higher speeds also means it must be constantly trimmed to get maximum performance out of it.  With combat trim or "easy mode" turned on, it's very hard to get the plane slow enough and trimmed properly to turn well.

But if you learn how to fly it, it's a good all-around dogfighter and a talented player can even beat a well flown spit unless the fight degenerates into a simple flat turn rate contest on the deck.  It also has a decent roll rate across the entire speed range which helps against USN rides.
Everyone I know, goes away, in the end.

Offline tikky

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2005, 03:28:56 PM »
hmmmm how come Warbird's Ki-84 is faster THAN any US irons...?

PS Ki-84 SHOULD be faster than P-51D at lo alts...

from WB3
Vmax (IAS) @ 5000’ @ WEP

By Rank Order

By Year

Rank Order – Current Version
Rank
 Aircraft
 3.05
 
1
 262
 461
 
2
 190D9
 358
 
3
 Ki84
 354

 
4
 J2M2
 353
 
5
 109K
 353
 
6
 Yak 3
 349
 
7
 P47D
 349
 
8
 J2M3
 346
 
9
 F4u1a
 344
 
10
 F4u1D
 344
 
11
 Corsair II
 344
 
12
 Corsair IV
 344
 
13
 F4u4
 344
 
14
 P51D
 342

 
15
 Spit 14
 342
 
16
 P51B
 341

 
17
 Fw190A4
 339
 
18
 P38J
 329
 
19
 P38L
 329
 
20
 190A8
 326
 
21
 109G6
 323
 
22
 C205
 322
 
23
 F4u1
 321
 
24
 Corsair I
 321
 
25
 P47C
 321
 
26
 Yak 9
 320
 
27
 Ki44-IIb
 317
 
28
 P39Q
 315
 
29
 P38F
 313
 
30
 Mossie NFII
 313
 
31
 P400
 312
 
32
 Mossie VI
 312
 
33
 P39D
 308
 
34
 Spit 9
 308
 
35
 Ki61-1b
 308
 
36
 F6F5
 308
 
37
 Ki61-Ic
 308
 
38
 C202
 306
 
39
 109F4
 303
 
40
 109G6R6
 303
 
41
 A6M3
 295
 
42
 A6M5a
 295
 
43
 SPIT 5
 294
 
44
 109F1
 292
 
45
 Seafire 2
 291
 
46
 110G2
 290
 
47
 Ki43
 288
 
48
 P40E
 288
 
49
 P40B
 287
 
50
 Spitfire 1
 285
 
51
 109E4
 284
 
52
 FM2
 284
 
53
 A36
 279
 
54
 A6M2
 271
 
55
 Hurri2c
 269
 
56
 F4F3
 267
 
57
 F4F4
 263
 
58
 Hurricane 1
 262
« Last Edit: February 08, 2005, 03:34:53 PM by tikky »

Offline Mitsu

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2005, 04:19:41 PM »
I don't like to see Ki-84 with US test profile.
Though the Ki-84-I-Otsu may have greater speeds by HA-45-21 engine...

Offline Jackal1

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2005, 12:11:41 AM »
Once again........................ ...............


It`s the little , teen niny , chigger sized
FUGGIN GauGES
just like the new 38s .

Am I gettin through here?
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline MOSQ

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2005, 01:18:35 AM »
I guess to sum it up:

1) It's the little , teen niny , chigger sized, FUGGIN GauGES, just like the new 38s.

2) Fowler Flaps that don't come out till 150.

3) Instability between 151 and 200.

4) The forward view is obscured by extra thick canopy frame.

5) The cannons are weak and you run out of shells real fast.

6) For some folks the speed is not as fast as it "ought" to be.

7) It's not as damage resistant as US or german aircraft.

8) The ENY value is too low, should be a 20 to 25, not 15.

Any that I missed?

[Edit}: Its cursed with pilot wounds and oil leaks.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2005, 11:49:45 AM by MOSQ »

Offline MOSQ

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2005, 01:35:59 AM »
In regards the 20mm being weak, I saw this at Tony Williams site:

"Finally, the Army adopted the Ho-5, a derivative of the Browning .50 that probably was the best Japanese fighter gun of the war. The Ho-5 was lighter, had a high rate of fire, and it was belt-fed instead of drum-fed.

But near the end of the war the Japanese had a shortage of high-strength alloys, and to compensate for the reduced strength of the guns the Army reduced the pressures. Hence the muzzle velocity of the Ho-5 dropped from 820 m/s to 700 - 730 m/s."

The question being: Does this mean early KI-84s and KI-61s had the benefit of higher velocity cannons? At what point did the velocity drop?

I'd be willing to bet the AHII Ho-5s are at the 700m/s velocity. Perhaps if they  were 820  lot of the complaints would go away about their poor aiming.

Maybe Tony will see this thread and enlighten us.


http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

Offline TexMurphy

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2005, 02:00:21 AM »
I find it a very hard plane to fly plus its cursed.

Its cursed with pilot wounds and oil leaks.

I dont like to fly cursed planes.. ;)

Tex

Offline Zixieo

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2005, 02:14:26 AM »
The Ki84 is my favorite fighter.  I love its climb rate and the way it handles.  Its a very good plane.

Offline TexMurphy

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #72 on: February 09, 2005, 02:36:29 AM »
Yepp amazing how much focus is put on TURNING and SPEED and how little is put on CLIMB.

The most amazing is that you hear vets say turns almost as a spit and just faster and that aint enough without mentioning climb.... hmmm...

Tex

Offline DoctorYO

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how come the Ki-84 is rarely used?
« Reply #73 on: February 09, 2005, 08:02:54 AM »
Quote
I find it a very hard plane to fly plus its cursed.


Well you might be right...   My streak ended due to b17 tail section going straight up some 50-100 feet to instakill me after i chopped it off..

well 15 / 1 K/D with the only death to plane parts..

not too shabby... but Ill have to research that cursed stuff becuase last night my plane was coated with bad mojo...


DoctorYo