Author Topic: The Russians are coming.....  (Read 2340 times)

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Re: Re: The Russians are coming.....
« Reply #60 on: February 15, 2005, 03:15:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Oh yeah, you sure know what you're talking about.  Tempests are alllll over the place.:rolleyes:

That Ki-84 is just soooo fast and has such great firepower.:rolleyes:


This from a guy who chooses one of the most overmodeled fighters to fly and then has the gall to whine endlessly about it not being overmodeled even more.


1K3,

That isn't what I've read.  Post some backup to that please.


Go hump someone else's ankle, loser. If you can prove the P-38 is overmodeled, prove it, or shut your arrogant pie hole, moron. While you're at it, go whine about your Axis ride's instability, or more to the point your inability to fly it. You and Kweassa go somewhere and roll up in a ball, and keep it to yourselves.

Every KI84 I meet goes HO. I meant Typhoons, not Tempests, I was a little busy at the time, pardon my imperfection, I'm sure you never misspoke about anything in your life. I'm in the shop by myself today, my partner's daughter is having a baby. Anyone who was thinking knew exactly what I meant, just because you are too stupid to figure it out doesn't mean everyone else is.

Oh, and lately, I've seen a mass of Bish Tempests and jets, just because you haven't doesn't mean a thing.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Wotan

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« Reply #61 on: February 15, 2005, 03:33:46 PM »
Looks like Karnak has made Cap'n Crunch's list as well...

Offline Howitzer

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« Reply #62 on: February 15, 2005, 03:33:56 PM »
Jets are like so last year man.. this is the year of the tempest!

Man I love that ride  :D

Offline jaxxo

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« Reply #63 on: February 15, 2005, 03:38:02 PM »
"I find LA7s make up very good targets. Yaks and La5s are a different story cause usually the guys that take those two up know what they are doing. "

I figure this is the reason i get so many kills when flying it, usually against far superior numbers. It isnt much of a challenge to get kills in which is why its getting boring to fly. I dont think it should be perked...its the only plane to catch those annoying runway diving 190's :)

Offline Blue Mako

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« Reply #64 on: February 15, 2005, 03:45:20 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
Isn't that the way it always goes?  

The disgusting part is the elGAY-7 Ho probably wet his pants from the excitement he got thinking he was l337 with killaH sn1p3r sKiLlZ!


Worst part of the new culture is that people are talking about jousting and snip3r skills.  Are we playing a flight sim game anymore? :confused:

Offline slimm50

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« Reply #65 on: February 15, 2005, 03:45:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Westy
l337 with killaH sn1p3r sKiLlZ!

   I will never get the hang of l337 speak.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #66 on: February 15, 2005, 04:10:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Howitzer
Jets are like so last year man.. this is the year of the tempest!

Man I love that ride  :D


I saw a bunch of the Saturday night. Surprised me as to the number of people flying it. I guess since there were several at once, it was a mission, or two. Maybe they figured since there were several, they were safe in flying perk rides. Some were well flown, some were not. I did however see them on several sorties in a row. I saw groups of 3 to 5 on a couple of sorties. Most were doing the same tired LA7 deal, zoom in, make a pass, and run like a sissy. Some did a good job of using their advantages.

A few guys in the squad did a Tempest mission the other night, I opted out, as I rarely fly perk rides. I've got a couple thousand perks, I'd give them to my buddies if I could. I do fly a C Hog or a -4 every once in a while, or maybe a 152 if I'm hunting bombers at HQ. I think I've taken about 10 hops in a 262 in all the time I've flown in AH. I've flown the Tempest, it's a great ride.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2005, 01:16:34 AM »
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Perfect! Newbies won't fly at all. Imagine frustration of new 2-weeks player who doesn't have any skills, is killed almost always and instantly, and can't even take a plane where he could get one accidental kill to get perk points. What do you think how long he would be playing?


 What's to imagine about? They already don't have any skill, and is killed almost always and instantly, in whatever plane they choose to fly in.

 The only difference in the current MA is that since all of the late-war dragsters are totally free(and yet, only some of those are perked at 60+ points.. sheer unjustice to RAF fans), sometimes, they will survive an engagement they should have died in, due to the sheer speed of their planes. This as a direct result motivate them to fly exclusively those fast planes, instead of try to get better in overall flying skill so they don't die always and instantly.

 
Quote
I you want to have 10 players in MA at peak time you couldn't give better suggestion.


 Many, many MMOGs take on the form of "practice to get better, get better to collect money, collect money to buy better weapons" type of gameplay. In fact, in this perspective AH is a rare exception rather than the norm.

 This automatic assumption that an external price tag will instantly make players quit, is sheer folly, which is to be blamed for the current stagnation of hordish MA gameplay.

 This is not a matter of principle. It's a matter of efficiency. Find the right price and it serves as a motivation rather than hinderance - something that the player can appreciate and relate to, rather than give up totally.

 If the "superplanes" were perked at 10+ points, it would indeed be a major hinderance. An average pilot in the MA gets one kill in the MA and then dies almost immediately. They collect about 1~1.5 perk per each sortie which typically lasts about 10 minutes. If they have to work over 10 sorties in 100 minutes to just fly the super plane once, then like you said, people would rather quit.

 However, what if they were perked at 3~5 points?

 That is something to ponder about.

 If they go HO two~three enemy planes in 15 minutes of their miserable short sorties in a P-51B they will collect enough perks to fly a P-51D. They will be able to fly it, and probably die again, losing 5 perks. However, it's not like "oh ***, I lost my 200 perk Me262.. I have to work couple of more months before I ever get to fly one again". Will people be totally discouraged, afraid of losing merely 5 perks?

 I think not.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2005, 01:21:36 AM by Kweassa »

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2005, 01:28:08 AM »
Another fact to consider, is that the existence of "vets" in the MA currently hardly effects the game in any kind of scale. Ofcourse, a single 25x25 sector featuring amalgam of super-AH-aces such as Drex, Levi, Fester, Steve, Shane all in the same team, would probably have some kind of short-term effect - except these kind of 'events' rarely ever happen in MA.

 The "vets" are only a handful. They're not always online. The majority of MA is hordes of amateuers vs amateuers, novice vs novice, average vs average game. The typical "newbie" is not shot down by good pilots. The typical "newbie" gets shot down while fighting another newbie, or groups of newbies.

 Putting small perk prices on late-war planes has absolutely none, or negligible influence, in "making life harder for newbies". If a certain newbie can't afford flying La-7s or P-51Ds all the time, then it means most of the situations he falls under, he will be fighting with people under the same circumstances as he is.

 They say that the meek shall inherit the Earth.

 So it has been done - the meek did inherit AH MA. Whatever applies for one person, applies the same for all. At least, for the majority that is large enough to make a difference.

Offline Tilt

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« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2005, 05:23:22 AM »
I think that given the total points/perks/rank/kill announcements rewards folk landing kills then any player concerned with any of the above will work to "land kills".

The more "timid" they are, and the more they revere the "scoring systems" then the more they will migrate to that ride and that technique that most easily achieves their ends.

Different mentalities and abilitiies will get bored with this at differing rates...................

IMO perks are there for gameplay balance at its basest level. The object is to maximise player choice and only modify rides with respect to  gameplay where some rides may over balance it.

A graduated perk system may reduce the tendancy to HO or carry out suicide tactics. IMO it will also generate higher levels of so called timidity.

Generally, players with "something to lose" will be more reluctant to enter situations they are not confident of getting out of............yet these same players will not choose rides that have obvious disadvantages over the general spread of rides in use.


Perks do not behave like currency...........they do not enable you to buy a ride that will earn even greater perks (infact perked rides are generally poor currency earners)..............if they did then generally players would all end up flying 262's............
Ludere Vincere

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #70 on: February 16, 2005, 06:53:03 AM »
I don't think perking any more planes is really the answer. Besides, I'm not at all in favor of preventing people from flying what they like, jets not withstanding (it is after all, a basicly prop driven fighter game). As much as I don't like facing poorly flown cannon equipped and/or fast planes cherry picking and such, I can't bring myself to support perking them and preventing people who like flying them or at  least handicapping their particular type of fun. I may complain about it, I may not like it, I may even let it make me mad when I get picked in a good fight or coming out of one. But I can live with it, it doesn't make the game unplayable, it is just an annoyance.

With the advantages it has in speed, handling, and being a small target, I figure the LA7 would have to be perked far more than the C Hog, which just has a great set of guns. A small perk price might keep a few people with very low perk accounts out of them, but it would not cut down on the use of it that much.

What we're dealing with is a mentality among a certain group that the rest cannot hope to change. I suppose you could just perk everything with one or more cannons and/or a deck speed of more than 340MPH up to a certain level that more than a few can't or won't pay. That MIGHT prevent the majority of the HO and run method of cherry picking. But that's about what you'd have to do to eliminate that sort of behavior. It simply is not a viable solution.

As far as timid behavior goes, there isn't much you can do about it. Those who want to completely avoid dying will make every attempt to do so.

While you can take note of what is considered to be poor form, you can discourage it, you can treat those who fly that way with disdain, and you can learn to avoid much of it, there is nothing much that can really be done that will not drasticly effect those who do not partake in that behavior. This is a game, whether you like that fact or not. In that it is a game, some who play it will treat it as such. As much as you may not like it, they pay their $15 a month and support the company like anyone else.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline dedalos

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« Reply #71 on: February 16, 2005, 08:04:26 AM »
Try this senario.  Last night 183 (or 184) was attacked by 2 CV groups.  One LA7 was able to avoid being vulched (more the skill of the vulcher than the lala) twice, take out 9 vulchers in two runs and stop the attack until help arrived and the CVs were taken out.  Considering I had 40 perks left after losing 2 262s, how many lalas would I have been able to up to defend that base if they were perked?  If the cost was 1 perk point I could have upped 40 of them.  If the cost was 10, I would just go somewhere else.  I don't think perking them and not the D9s and 51s would be fair.

Obviusly, the 9 dead vulchers would have preffered to see me up a KI61, or 205, or a Spit so I can get repeatedly vulched rather than being a lala dweeb while they would get to land their 5 or 10 kills in their not so uber planes.  So, they would like to see the lala perked.  Never mind that they could not hit a plane on the grownd.
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline 6GunUSMC

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« Reply #72 on: February 16, 2005, 11:01:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
A graduated perk system may reduce the tendancy to HO or carry out suicide tactics. IMO it will also generate higher levels of so called timidity.

.............

Perks do not behave like currency...........they do not enable you to buy a ride that will earn even greater perks (infact perked rides are generally poor currency earners)..............if they did then generally players would all end up flying 262's............


I wish the high risk would yield high returns!  I think that needs to be corrected.

Offline Vad

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« Reply #73 on: February 16, 2005, 11:56:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kweassa


... sometimes, they will survive an engagement they should have died in, due to the sheer speed of their planes. This as a direct result motivate them to fly exclusively those fast planes, instead of try to get better in overall flying skill so they don't die always and instantly.


Wrong. This result does motivate them to fly fast uber planes, but it doesn't mean that they don't get better and don't get more skilled. Where you can get more skills: in 10 seconds fight or in 1 minute fight? If La-7 gives them few additional seconds of fighting experience it is enough to leave La-7 unperked.

Quote

 Many, many MMOGs take on the form of "practice to get better, get better to collect money, collect money to buy better weapons" type of gameplay. In fact, in this perspective AH is a rare exception rather than the norm.


The main difference between AH and other games is the length of learning curve. It takes couple of days to become average and few weeks to become the best in Quake. After more than half a year of everyday flying I am still suprised if I landed. So, the norm you are talking about is unacceptable for AH.

Low price you suggest will not affect set of planes average player is flying now. Even average pilot has enough perks to do not worry about 1-2 perks. But even low perk cost will lead to much more timid flying, this is human mentality. Yes, 2 weeks newbies will not fly La-7 and P-51, they will instantly die in Hurri. And will give up and quit after couple of days. But the majority of average players will fly the same La-7 and P51 but they will fly them high and in hordes and run away in sight of any danger.

Ok, let be honest. I don't understand this whine about lalas (I don't  mean you, I am talking in general).

1. I rarely see La-7 running, almost always La-7s fight regardless of how good or bad their pilots. P51 and 190s run almost always. If La-7 is so uber plane that even newbies feel confident and don't fear to jump into furball what else do you need? Perk cost for the most of the late-war planes just drops the number of good fights.  

2. Now we can find nonperked planes in all categories for every type of fight: TnB planes, BnZ planes, fast planes, cannon planes, low alt and high alt planes, etc. Perk one of the categories and you will defenitely change this game. For example, if you will perk La-7 I predict the great increase of low alt  bombing sorties.

3. The majority of the new players don't fly uber late-war planes. They fly everything, they just want to try all toys they got. The problem with La-7 is that this toy is more dangerous even in hands of complete idiot.

4. La-7 is not easy plane to fly, it is unforgiving on low speeds, has terrible cannons, has low range, etc. I, for example, first couple of days in AH flew everything, next two months flew Spit9, and the next was 190D. So, I am sure that the number of newbies flying La-7 is overestimated. Yes, average pilot with some skills and experience will prefer La-7. It gives him some confidence, allows to improve his score, etc. But after some time he will switch to another plane anyway because it is just boring to fly only one type of missions -  base defence.

Offline dedalos

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« Reply #74 on: February 16, 2005, 02:04:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vad
1. I rarely see La-7 running, almost always La-7s fight regardless of how good or bad their pilots. P51 and 190s run almost always. If La-7 is so uber plane that even newbies feel confident and don't fear to jump into furball what else do you need?


:rofl  Don't you see that this is the problem?  Chances are a lala will turn around and kill you making you feel like a newb.  A 51 or 190 running makes you look like a hero and the comunity learns your name when you put out on 200:"hahaha lame runstang running from HURRI"  

Another reason is that people would love to have you up with 100% fuel in a jug just that they can continue their vulching or RTB (run to base) if you make it of the grownd.  Have you seen what happens to a base cap when a couple of lalas make it off the vulchway?  If it was not a squad op and no goon was on the way, all the red disapears in seconds

PS. lalas cannot run.  Don't have the fuel for it
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.