Author Topic: Question to Finns  (Read 29576 times)

Offline Toad

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Question to Finns
« Reply #435 on: March 16, 2005, 02:06:32 PM »
LOL... the captured LW photos are indeed credible sources, especially when they correlate with other evidence. Except to those desperate to deny the truth, of course.

Kind of funny the Soviets would dig up the graves AFTER the Burdenko Comission report in 1944 isn't it?

:rofl
« Last Edit: March 16, 2005, 02:10:21 PM by Toad »
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Offline Nekto

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Question to Finns
« Reply #436 on: March 16, 2005, 02:34:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
LOL... the captured LW photos are indeed credible sources, especially when they correlate with other evidence. Except to those desperate to deny the truth, of course.

I cannot believe in Nazi sources. Maybe they deliberatelly changed dates and such.  Nazi source is not independent one. And besides do they took photos of the Katyn forest each day or at leas each month? No. They shoot it only 17 times (in case it's truth).

Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Kind of funny the Soviets would dig up the graves AFTER the Burdenko Comission report in 1944 isn't it?
 

And what? Did they plan a new comission and  want to deceive the international observers? No. They did't plan it. So Who they want to deceive? Any idea?

Offline Fishu

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Question to Finns
« Reply #437 on: March 16, 2005, 02:44:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nekto
I cannot believe in Nazi sources. Maybe they deliberatelly changed dates and such.  Nazi source is not independent one.


Just about what to believe...  I don't believe the USSR sources much more, when it comes to certain things.
Another thing in which the USSR is similar to the nazi-Germany.

Offline Staga

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Question to Finns
« Reply #438 on: March 16, 2005, 02:47:03 PM »
This is amazing!
I really couldn't believe there would be more people like Boroda in Russia who are still believing what their comrades teached in fifties :rofl

Offline Toad

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« Reply #439 on: March 16, 2005, 02:49:40 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nekto
I cannot believe in Nazi sources.

They shoot it only 17 times (in case it's truth).

 
And what?  


1. There are other independent sources.

2. There were more than 17 photos from the sorties; these were the ones that showed the graves around Katyn. You think they would photograph the same site to the exclusion of all others? These were reconnaissance flights during wartime, not a particular record of Katyn per se.

And they were captured along with thousands of others. They weren't "special" in any way; just part of a group.

3. And they were destroying the evidence.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #440 on: March 16, 2005, 05:06:46 PM »
to Toad

>>Actually, they correlated Luftwaffe reconnaissance photos with satellite imagery and found new graves at Katyn.

Sputnik was only in 1957, Toad. And it was first thing on orbit. Shame on you. So, can you be trusted in something else, then?

Offline Toad

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« Reply #441 on: March 16, 2005, 05:09:48 PM »
It has to be the language. You can't be that dense.

Luftwaffe photos correlated to later US satellite imagery that shows the graves.

I'm starting to feel sorry for you instead of only laughing at you.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Fishu

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Question to Finns
« Reply #442 on: March 16, 2005, 05:53:45 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
I'm starting to feel sorry for you instead of only laughing at you.


At least he can speak english in the first place.
and so do I.
Would be boring for you if we couldn't ;)

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #443 on: March 16, 2005, 07:37:37 PM »
to Toad

>>It has to be the language. You can't be that dense.

This was not mistranslating, but misreading. I was on hurry, there was 8 AM and already should be on my way to the University at this time :-)

>>Luftwaffe photos correlated to later US satellite imagery that shows the graves.

And how you can see graves in the forest this way?

BTW, Russia is a HUGE country and to find such a small place like a set of graves by chance is almost impossible. If you don`t know were to search of course... And seems that Luftwaffe did...

Offline Toad

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« Reply #444 on: March 16, 2005, 08:06:29 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Fishu
At least he can speak english in the first place.
and so do I.
 


I salute him for being multilingual or more; I am not, although I pretty much was at one time youth.

However, denial of this magnitude transcends and overwhelms multilingual capability.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #445 on: March 16, 2005, 08:15:06 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raven_2

And how you can see graves in the forest this way?



You know a Professor wrote an entire book about this very subject! Maybe he can explain it to you!

You want me to explain it all to you in one paragraph, which I have tried to do in previous quotes in this thread. You either don't understand the quotes or don't want to understand the quotes.

I suggest you READ THE BOOK since you want more information than the quotes give you.

Here:

Order your copy of God's Eye: Aerial Photography and the Katyn Forest Massacre today!

from: Frank Fox, 51 Merbrook Lane, Merion Station, PA 19066

Book Price: $25 - Shipping (by priority mail) and Handling - $5  

TOTAL: $30

Telephone: (610) 667-4725  Fax: (610) 667-7072
personal check or money order -- sorry, no credit cards
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #446 on: March 16, 2005, 08:37:27 PM »
Quote

The bombing of Dresden by the British Royal Air Force (RAF) and the United States Army Air Force (USAAF) between February 13th and 15th, 1945 remains one of the most controversial events of World War II, even after 60 years.

Although the Allies considered Dresden (the capital of the German state of Saxony) a military target, several historians regard Dresden more as a cultural landmark than anything else and assert that the number of civilians killed was excessive to a criminal degree.

According to British historian Frederick Taylor:

The destruction of Dresden has an epically tragic quality to it. It was a wonderfully beautiful city and a symbol of baroque humanism and all that was best in Germany. It also contained all of the worst from Germany during the Nazi period. In that sense it is an absolutely exemplary tragedy for the horrors of 20th Century warfare . . .


Quote

 Günter Grass, the German novelist and Nobel laureate for literature, and Simon Jenkins, the former editor of The Times, have both referred to the Dresden bombing as a "war crime". The historian Max Hastings said in an article subtitled 'the Allied Bombing of Dresden': "I believe it is wrong to describe strategic bombing as a 'war crime', for this might be held to suggest some moral equivalence with the deeds of the Nazis. Bombing represented a sincere, albeit mistaken, attempt to bring about Germany's military defeat". Harald Jaehner, a German literary critic stated: "Look at the bombing of Dresden, which was really an assault on the civilian population."

Dr. Gregory H. Stanton, president of Genocide Watch, wrote, "The Nazi Holocaust was among the most evil genocides in history. But the Allies' firebombing of Dresden and nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes - and as Leo Kuper and Eric Markusen have argued, also acts of genocide".


"<...>the Allies' firebombing of Dresden and nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes - and <...> acts of genocide". By president of Genocide Watch, Dr. Gregory H. Stanton.

Still this is not an argument for you, Toad?

Sure, "deny, deny, deny".

Even when your nation crime are proved by whole world. You think you somewhat differ from Boroda in this case? :-) At least, Boroda and I would accept mass kiling by NKVD at Katyn if Russian/Poland court declare this.

And "destruction of Hiroshima was war crime and act of genocide" it`s just not for your mind...

Quote

Some of the critics of the bombing of Dresden argue that there should have been prosecutions brought against RAF Bomber Commander Arthur Harris, and even Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt. These critics argue that if Japan and Germany had won the war, bombings like that of Dresden would certainly have been prosecuted as a war crime. They argue that bombing of German cities was intended as a deliberate strategy to terrorize the German people not only to win the war, but also in preparation for the post-war occupation. In fact, no alleged war crimes of the Allies were ever tried after World War II.


>>but also in preparation for the post-war occupation

And now we find a reason for US to kill Japan/German civilians. They want to occupate their land.

Quote

The purpose of the area bombing of cities was laid out in a British Air Staff paper, dated September 23, 1941:

The ultimate aim of an attack on a town area is to break the morale of the population which occupies it. To ensure this, we must achieve two things: first, we must make the town physically uninhabitable and, secondly, we must make the people conscious of constant personal danger. The immediate aim, is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) fear of death.


So there main reason was just a terrorism! Allied forces used terroristic tactic! This was a planned massacre!

Quote

The bombing of Dresden, while it was one of the more devastating conventional attacks of the war, was part of a policy of leveling cities and breaking the civilian ability to resist. That destruction of civilian morale was the intent of area bombing is not under dispute: the doctrine of destroying civilian morale through bombing, an extension of Karl von Clausewitz who argued that total war's aim was to break the opponent's will, was also approved in principle by the American Joint Chiefs of Staff CCS 166/1/D, 21 January 1943, and formally inaugurated in June of 1943.


So that is the main reason for your ignorance! US was at war not with Germanian/Japan military (like Soviet forces), but with German/Japan PEOPLE!!!

All of civilian butchering by US force were PLANNED! Not by accident. That was an official tactic of US forces. And now YOU say something to ME about war crimes?!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #447 on: March 16, 2005, 08:43:09 PM »
Try all you like but bombing a city with military targets within it...yes, even Dresden had military targets within it.. is just a part of total unrestricted warfare. Happened in both World Wars, happened in every air force.

Shooting tens of thousands of bound POWs and intelligentsia in the back of the head is murder.

It did not happen in both World Wars and it did not happen in every military.

Learn to live with it; you'll feel better for being honest with yourself.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #448 on: March 16, 2005, 08:50:21 PM »
to Toad

>>You know a Professor wrote an entire book about this very subject! Maybe he can explain it to you!

LOL 8-) Maybe Professor should explain this to your gvmt? They didn`t found any WMD in Iraq with their satellites, but they found Katyn grave at much more bigger territory - in forests, not in Iraq deserts.

Offline Raven_2

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Question to Finns
« Reply #449 on: March 16, 2005, 08:52:15 PM »
to Toad

>>Try all you like but bombing a city with military targets within it...yes, even Dresden had military targets within it.. is just a part of total unrestricted warfare. Happened in both World Wars, happened in every air force.

>>Dr. Gregory H. Stanton, president of Genocide Watch, wrote, "The Nazi Holocaust was among the most evil genocides in history. But the Allies' firebombing of Dresden and nuclear destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were also war crimes - and as Leo Kuper and Eric Markusen have argued, also acts of genocide".

Deny, deny, deny 8-)