Author Topic: Help me  (Read 1129 times)

Offline Avor

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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2005, 12:26:24 PM »
Is there any way to turn it off or compensate for it other then diving from 5000+

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2005, 12:56:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Avor
Is there any way to turn it off or compensate for it other then diving from 5000+


Avor,
if you are getting the nose bouncing effect, get with Ren or any Trainer and let them walk you thru how to set up your stick scaling


nose bouncing effect comes from the stick scaling you are using along with your dampening and dead band sliders

I would take Ren up on his offer

you be up and blasting bandits in no time!

if this is indeed the problem you are having


Ack-Ack had a good stick config and Drano if I recall right had a good one.

I use 100% across the top on all sliders with very little deadband and dampening, to most they would experience allot of nose bounce, I experience a little, but for most part I am use to my stick setup so I am light ahnded on my control input.

really, get with REn or a trainer or a longtime flyer and let them help you out in the TA  it will not take long at all to fix, if thats the problem you have.
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2005, 01:21:52 PM »
Quote
In fact most pilots trimmed a lil nose (read very small amount here) down when they went feet dry. The reason is they had to hold a lil stick and if they needed to unload it was automatic.


Is basically how I normally set mine Ren, and is good adice in my view

that and I do not use Combat Trim,  I trim for my best cruise speed / prefered fighting speed envelope for plane  and leave it.

Then again, everyone of us have the "RIGHT or CORRECT way" of doing things lol only in our minds

:D
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2005, 01:47:51 PM »
The bounces described by Avor are not related to joy spikes nor joy calibration.

He points nose down, then free the stick (no signal in Y axis) and there it goes, a single nose up bounce.

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2005, 01:56:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
The bounces described by Avor are not related to joy spikes nor joy calibration.

He points nose down, then free the stick (no signal in Y axis) and there it goes, a single nose up bounce.


no offense Mando,
but could it might be that you yourself have the same problem and think that is just the way the game is?

Seriously, if I push down on my stick and I am trimmed right, when I let go I do not get 1 nose bounce, 2 nose bounces or any.

if I do not have my stick set right, I have before and will see a nose bounce. to me this has to do with stick input / scaling and trim

as I mentioned, everyone of us is "RIGHT"  but only in our on minds. so it would not hurt to get with an individual and try to fix the problem, if there is indeed one......but hey that is just how I am viewing this whole thread......no worries. It does not hurt anyone to offer a suggestion or opinion
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline StarOfAfrica2

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« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2005, 02:32:02 PM »
Aye, sounds like too much elevator trim to me.  The only issue I've ever had is an occasional "bump" of the nose when I'm trying to line up for a shot, almost like turbulence.  But its not like what has been described in this thread.

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2005, 02:38:46 PM »
Tequila, as far as I understand, the effect is "normal" but the level of the effect may be more of less exagerated depending on the plane.

When you pull your stick you gain AOA over the AOA needed to keep your current flight path, the flight path itself changes later and follows your nose direction. If you release suddenly the stick, the nose will try to align again with the current flight path (this is the nose down bounce). Similar effect for nose up "bounce". If you release the stick slowly, the flight path and the nose will be "almost" aligned and the bounce will be less noticeable.

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2005, 02:55:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
Tequila, as far as I understand, the effect is "normal" but the level of the effect may be more of less exagerated depending on the plane.

Yes Sir, I can agree with this, especially the more or less exagerated part depending on plane, also there is a way to cut down the effect of this action by adjusting your stick settings to where some can just about do away with all of it for the most part
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
When you pull your stick you gain AOA over the AOA needed to keep your current flight path, the flight path itself changes later and follows your nose direction. If you release suddenly the stick, the nose will try to align again with the current flight path (this is the nose down bounce). Similar effect for nose up "bounce". If you release the stick slowly, the flight path and the nose will be "almost" aligned and the bounce will be less noticeable.

I am not saying this is not true as well, I am in agreement, I am saying that  scaling your stick and adjusting trim and dampening and dead band you can cancel out alot of this movement, maybe not every last little micro bounce , but enough to where it would not affect your flying

I understand the mechanics of flight and understand how one action of control input gets a return action, I am not disagreeing with you on any of these things Mando.  however, I am disagreeing on that some of it can be overcomed and reduced by simply going to the stick configuration and setup and messing around with the sliders to see how they in turn affect any one players flying style.
This is why I noted that in every players mind they "think" they are right or have the right answer. I am not saying your way/idea/theory is wrong. I am not saying my idea/theory is right, and is why I mentioned it does not hurt to look at every suggestion . Who knows what one might learn or figure out.
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline MANDO

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« Reply #23 on: March 02, 2005, 03:09:05 PM »
Tequila, if you gained AOA well over the needed to substain the current flight path, and then you release the stick suddenly (you put your hand away of the stick) so your nose tends to align again with your fight path, what kind of joy adjustments can you try to do to make your nose travel slower (no violent bounce is noticed) to converge with the current flight path?

Offline TequilaChaser

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« Reply #24 on: March 02, 2005, 10:52:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MANDO
Tequila, if you gained AOA well over the needed to substain the current flight path, and then you release the stick suddenly (you put your hand away of the stick) so your nose tends to align again with your fight path, what kind of joy adjustments can you try to do to make your nose travel slower (no violent bounce is noticed) to converge with the current flight path?
1st Mando, maybe what I consider violent nose bounce and what you consider violent nose bounce are 2 things completely different.

2nd I will quote myself:
Quote
I am saying that scaling your stick and adjusting trim and dampening and dead band you can cancel out alot of this movement, maybe not every last little micro bounce , but enough to where it would not affect your flying
maybe I should have not used the word  "micro"
 &
Quote
I understand the mechanics of flight and understand how one action of control input gets a return action, I am not disagreeing with you on any of these things Mando. however, I am disagreeing on that some of it can be overcomed and reduced
« Last Edit: March 02, 2005, 10:55:01 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline jon

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does it matter?
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2005, 11:52:00 PM »
As far as im conserned does it really matter? come fly your cessna against my p 51 and see how it really does.

Offline Cobra412

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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2005, 11:59:19 PM »
Avor this statement isn't completely true.

Quote
In a real fighter, when the plane is pointed in a direction it stays there, this means the plane is natualy less stable but a can be handled faster and wtih more precision.


I work the flight controls systems on the F-15.  What you are describing is an aircraft with a perfect rig and pefect cg.  This just isn't possible without some type of attitude hold system engaged.  You will almost always have some type of movement whether it be in roll, pitch or yaw.  That's why we have tolerances for each axis.

A typical checkout prior to doing advanced handling checks will check to see if atleast two of these areas are within tolerance.  To check the roll axis they will first maintain a specific altitude, airspeed and check to ensure their wings don't have an excessive fuel imbalance.  They will release the stick after placing the aircraft to roll wings level condition and ensuring the aircraft isn't pitching up.  They will then start the clock.  The airframe is only allowed to roll x amount of degrees per second.  Anything outside of this tolerance means the airframe is out of rig.  The airframe is allowed to  roll some it just depends on whether it's within tolerance or not.

They can also check the rigging on the yaw axis.  We call this a rudder friction checkout.  So long as the roll axis passed they can proceed to this checkout.  The will slowly walk the airfames AOA up.  They will reference their check list to ensure they are within a specific set of parameters while doing this check.  If the aircraft wants to dump the nose off left or right earlier than it's supposed to then obviously it failed.  Just as with the roll axis though there is a tolerance.  

The only way to almost guarantee a perfect attitude hold position is to use the attitude hold system itself.  If the attitude hold system is engaged rate gyros will be what is used to keep the aircraft at a particular roll or pitch angle.  There are limits to this system also (attitude hold can be engaged within x amount of degrees + or - x amount of degrees).  The automatic flight controls system comes into play with this area though.  It monitors the rate gyros for validity and for current aircraft attitude through the rate gyros.  It will hold the aircraft in a particular attitude so long as certain parameters are met.  You can temporarily disengage this system by moving the stick to a new attitude so long as you don't go out of the maximum parameters and the aircraft will hold at the last attitude position input.

I know with my stick setup I can point it in a general direction and it will stay like that for awhile.  I'll have to go and check it out again sometime.  I rarely use it because auto level or auto angle is easier and guaranteed.  I'll try to see if I maintain a specific altitude and specific airspeed if I can remove auto level and see if it stays flying at that attitude.  The only thing that should keep it from staying straight and level in AH is your stick calibration, steady airspeed and proper cg.  As long as your our cg isn't out due to fuel imbalances and your airspeed isn't erratic you should stay fairly straight and level over a period of time after disengaging auto level.

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: does it matter?
« Reply #27 on: March 03, 2005, 12:22:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by jon
As far as im conserned does it really matter? come fly your cessna against my p 51 and see how it really does.

why make such an indane post as this if you have nothing to offer? you trolling?

Avor had a question and asked for help.
that is what this forum is for: Help & Training

you asked as far as you are concerned does it really matter? well this is Avor's question & concern, and it matters to him!

get the picture?  :)
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline Lye-El

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Re: does it matter?
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2005, 07:42:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by jon
As far as im conserned does it really matter? come fly your cessna against my p 51 and see how it really does.


Ok , 20 ft. off the deck at 70 mile and hour  ok with you? First one to auger loses.

  Or should I just park it on the runway so you can vulch it and get points so you can say how great a pilot you are.  :rolleyes:


i dont got enough perkies as it is and i like upen my lancs to kill 1 dang t 34 or wirble its fun droping 42 bombs

Offline DamnedRen

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« Reply #29 on: March 03, 2005, 08:26:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Cobra412

I know with my stick setup I can point it in a general direction and it will stay like that for awhile.  I'll have to go and check it out again sometime.  I rarely use it because auto level or auto angle is easier and guaranteed.  I'll try to see if I maintain a specific altitude and specific airspeed if I can remove auto level and see if it stays flying at that attitude.  The only thing that should keep it from staying straight and level in AH is your stick calibration, steady airspeed and proper cg.  As long as your our cg isn't out due to fuel imbalances and your airspeed isn't erratic you should stay fairly straight and level over a period of time after disengaging auto level.


So there I was over macho grande...Opps...forget that...When you cut thru all Cobra's cool F-15 stuff you get back to the real issue at hand. In the games default mode there is a little nose bounce. It can be easily taken out by making some adjustments. So can pitch. Also as Cobra mentioned above here are auto pilots in the game for your convenience. So far, you're raised a quesiton but you haven't stepped forward to get help.

That being the case we stand ready to help you when you're ready for it.