Author Topic: Evidence for life on Mars  (Read 4249 times)

storch

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2005, 09:07:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
Jackal I'm not sure of the current stand of the catholic church for example, but at one time they also denied any chance of an extraterrestial lifeform.

The idea is based on the total trust to the Bible. If you're a strict creationist there's no space for any life outside earth according to the bible.


really?  source?

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #46 on: March 02, 2005, 09:10:37 AM »
I might be totally wrong - Bible is really not one of my strong points.

Then again, it wouldn't be the first time the book was interpreted selectively.

If you want internet links storch, these religious groups are most likely not the first ones to build web sites. :D

I couldn't find any references from the net but I could swear I saw several references in the media such as tv and radio to this during the past years.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2005, 09:14:45 AM by Siaf__csf »

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #47 on: March 02, 2005, 09:12:54 AM »
That genesis has an interesting point - what if the long ages of people described in it are actually caused by space travel and distortion of time (traveller ages one day, rest of the world 1000.)

storch

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #48 on: March 02, 2005, 09:13:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
I might be totally wrong - Bible is really not one of my strong points.

Then again, it wouldn't be the first time the book was interpreted selectively.


of course no one within the scientific community interprets evidence in anything other than pure and true objectivity.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #49 on: March 02, 2005, 09:17:49 AM »
The point with the catholic church is quite obvious without any links. If they were ready to kill Copernicus, a claim like this would have meant torture and death automatically.

storch

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #50 on: March 02, 2005, 09:18:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf
That genesis has an interesting point - what if the long ages of people described in it are actually caused by space travel and distortion of time (traveller ages one day, rest of the world 1000.)


that or possibly the existence of a moisture belt in the stratosphere which could have impeded the penetration of harmful radiation (see noah) thus allowing the human body's regenerative system to renew/replace damaged cells for a far longer period of time than we currently experience.

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #51 on: March 02, 2005, 09:20:50 AM »
One thing is for sure - the old language of the Bible is just hilarious.

storch

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #52 on: March 02, 2005, 09:21:41 AM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
One thing is for sure - the old language of the Bible is just hilarious.


try the NIV :D

Offline majic

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #53 on: March 02, 2005, 10:00:06 AM »
I've never understood why people believe that science and religion have to be mutually exclusive.

The important parts of religion are not in the technicalities like how humans became  human or how old the planet is, but in how we live our lives.

Were there a supreme being, does anyone believe that a man or group of men could possibly understand it completely?

Another way of looking at it:  What if the bible were written today.  It would fit what we know now and would contradict science less.  Why?  Because it is man's interpretation of what's going on; not written by the hand of God.

Unfortunately, it seems many people on both sides don't get it.  Religious groups are rife with hypocrites and many of the non-religious are no better.

storch

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #54 on: March 02, 2005, 10:25:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by majic
I've never understood why people believe that science and religion have to be mutually exclusive.

The important parts of religion are not in the technicalities like how humans became  human or how old the planet is, but in how we live our lives.

Were there a supreme being, does anyone believe that a man or group of men could possibly understand it completely?

Another way of looking at it:  What if the bible were written today.  It would fit what we know now and would contradict science less.  Why?  Because it is man's interpretation of what's going on; not written by the hand of God.

Unfortunately, it seems many people on both sides don't get it.  Religious groups are rife with hypocrites and many of the non-religious are no better.


I think that science has increasingly maintained the position that it and it alone has the answers when clearly science by it's very nature creates more questions than it can answer.  the problem is without doubt exascerbated by egos on both sides.

I like to fuel that battle for personal amusement.  :D

so in that spirit.  scientists of every stripe are demagogic pinheads unless they are also born again Christians.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #55 on: March 02, 2005, 11:11:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Siaf__csf

The idea is based on the total trust to the Bible. If you're a strict creationist there's no space for any life outside earth according to the bible.


Sorry, I just can`t buy that. Mind ya I haven`t wore the varnish off a pew or wore down my finger prints tithing in a long, long time. I just don`t remember ever seeing or hearing reference from the bible denying life outside of earth.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #56 on: March 02, 2005, 11:57:31 AM »
IMO a discovery of alien life questions the principles of creationism bluntly. It would be a major problem to theology.

Offline Jackal1

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« Reply #57 on: March 02, 2005, 12:08:41 PM »
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Originally posted by Siaf__csf
IMO a discovery of alien life questions the principles of creationism bluntly. It would be a major problem to theology.


I just don`t see how you figure that.
Ya know....."He created the heavens and the earth" kind of thing.
I would like to see some references though. Got my curousity peaked.
Democracy is two wolves deciding on what to eat. Freedom is a well armed sheep protesting the vote.
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Offline Seagoon

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Evidence for life on Mars
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2005, 01:14:44 PM »
One of my favorite quotes from the guests on "Politically Incorrect" was "Why do people who never read the bible, automatically assume they know more about it than people who spend their lives reading it?"

Siaf_csf, first just to introduce myself, yes I'm a pastor and an evangelical and I believe in biblical inerrancy. While it proves nothing objectively, I do hold two graduate degrees, an M.A. in Modern History from St. Andrews University, Fife, Scotland and a Master of Divinity from Westminster Theological Seminary in Philadelphia, PA. I note that simply to prove that while I may indeed be an idiot, I am not the infamous  "poor, uneducated and easily led" idiot of Washington Post lore.

I do not come from a religious background, and I used to be an anti-theist and a believer in Darwinian evolution. My wife studied Geo-Chemistry at the University of Rochester, where one of her projects was neodymium/selemium dating of rocks from the Canadian Shield. So this is a topic that I've had to discuss and think through for some time.

Just a couple of points to begin with:

1) The bible doesn't teach geocentricity (that the earth is the center of the universe) The Roman Catholic Church (hereafter RCC) did indeed promulgate that doctrine as something to be believed by the faithful, but this had more to do with the fact that the RCC accepted an Aristotelian Cosmology (which was obviously a Pagan Greek construct) and allowed it to trump a strictly biblical cosmology.

The Royal Academy of Science, on the other hand, was established by deeply  religious Protestant Puritans and did much to advance the Copernican cosmology and many of the scientific paradigms still in use today to explain the observed data. Amongst the more famous Puritan Scientists in the Academy where Isaac Newton and Francis Bacon. None of these men woud have accepted the notion that a belief in inerrancy entails geocentricity.

2) While the Bible specifically teaches special creation and intelligent design (something that both the DNA data and astrophysics support - see for instance John Byl's "God and Cosmos," Behe's "Darwin's Black Box," or "Intelligent Design" by Dembski) the idea of life, per se, on other planets is not ruled out.

In fact the consistent teaching of the bible is that "The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork" (Psalm 19:1) i.e. the very purpose of Creation is to show that there is a creator worthy of being glorified. Given the doctrine that man was created in the image of God, with dominion over creation as His steward,  the idea of intelligent life on other planets is a bit of theological stretch, but bacteria? Nope, nothing biblical precludes the existence of one-celled critters or any other flora or fauna on other planets. It simply teaches that God is the author of creation everywhere in the universe.

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SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Siaf__csf

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« Reply #59 on: March 02, 2005, 01:59:55 PM »
Well that round went 1-0 seagoon.

I stand corrected.

As I said, I'm not a Bible expert of any kind but I had a recollection that the church denied the possibility in some discussions that I saw.

Seagoon, would you think that the Bible leaves room for interpretation for those who would like to deny extraterrestial existense?

Nice to meet you, sir, by the way. There seems to be terrestial intelligence left on this planet.