And he won't get the death penaly for this?

[lasersailor184]

Bad trell, bad!



We didn't commit crimes as kids because we didn't know they were wrong.  We commited them because we didn't think we could get caught.

We knew full well that what we were doing was illegal.  Should we have less of a punishment because we believe we wouldn't get caught?

[Holden McGroin]

The only thing I have against the death penalty as it is practiced now is that we do not do it by public hanging.

If we think that it is improper to do it publically, it probably should not be done.

And hanging should be the preferred method of execution.  Hanging does not poison or burn the body and parts can be harvested. A rope and gallows can be used over and over again and can be made from recycled material.  A strong rope can be fashioned from organically grown hemp. No poisons or greenhouse gasses are realeased into the environment.

[Silat]

Just some info:
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/teenbrain.cfm

Teens are not equal to adults generally...............

[lasersailor184]

I do agree Holden.  The death penalty isn't used enough, nor is it public enough.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

I would find some of the B.S. that floats around here amusing were it not for the fact that it is dangerous to society as a whole.

First, you simply cannot equate general juvenile delinquency (joy riding, under age drinking, shop lifting, and vandalism) with murder (defined as homicide committed with malice and forethought) committed by a juvenile. It simply is not the same thing. It's no more the same in juveniles than it is in adults.

Second, you cannot make the assumption that trying a juvenile in an adult court, and making them eligible for the death penalty is wrong on the basis of maturity or the lack thereof. Maturity must be judged on a case by case individual basis.

Third, the willingness to commit murder shows a lacking of the necessary conscience required to function in society (with some notable exceptions). There is no other way to look at the act of murder. Regardless of age, race, sex, religion, or any other factor, those willing to commit murder do not belong in a free society, ever, period.

The boy in question did not shoot that woman in a fit of rage, unable ot control his emotions. He went and found a gun, lay in wait, and shot the woman basically in ambush. This "boy" acted with malice and forethought, and murdered another human being. And that woman is dead. She is no less dead because her killer was a teenager. And he is no less a murderer because he is a teenager. This "boy" is a cold blooded killer and lacks the conscience to exist in society. It is that simple. As far as I'm concerned, his actions make him eligible for trial as an adult, and execution at the convenience of the state when found guilty.

[GtoRA2]

Well said Virg!

And Exactly what I was trying say.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I do agree Holden.  The death penalty isn't used enough, nor is it public enough.

That is why the argument against the death penalty as a deterrent is not really valid. Today the death penalty is to rare and too watered down to be the deterrent we need and should have.

It is better that a guilty man go free than an innocent man be punished, no doubt. That is beyond dispute.

However, twenty years or more of appeals followed by a sanitized private euthanization removes the teeth from the death penalty. The appeals process needs to be streamlined. Not by removing appeals, but by expediting the process. There simply isn't an excuse for each hearing to be held YEARS apart. Months is more like it. Then, the executions need to be public. And not nearly so sanitary.

[Rasker]

On the bright side, a life sentence without parole served by a 15 or 17 year old is gonna be a loong loong time, just hope these yutzes on the Supreme Court dont get the idea to give these lil' darlings counseling  for their traumatized psyches and nothing but!

Hmm, does this mean we can shoot to kill whenever we see a teenager, since the law of the land is now that they are inherently out-of-control?

[RedTop]

"And he won't get the death penaly for this?"







nope.

[Despair]

Every human (kid or an adult) should know that every action brings consequences. Every human should know that certain actions will bring very severe conseqiences. Eventually its the fright to be punished that discourages ppl to do certain things regardless how badly they want to do it. So dont mix it with election and tobacco/alcohole stuff (the reason why its not allowed for kids is because they dont have enough info on those yet to decide by themselves).

[Cobra412]

I don't know how some can say that because a person who is not considered an adult legally shouldn't be tried as an adult.  It depends on the person.  Many teenagers are very capable of thinking rationally and making decisions for themselves.  

I went to school with 3 guys that committed premeditated murder, killing Jamie Michelle Faris.  They were all around 16 years old at the time of the murder(Roy Corbett, Paul Hennis and Kevin Fornei).  They planned the murder for weeks before going through with it.  Kevin figured the whole thing was a joke and it was the drugs talking.  They planned to take her to Pauls Grandparents barn and kill here there with a bat.  That bat just happen to belong to another friend of mine that I played ball with.  They had borrowed it a week prior.  My friend thought nothing of it because both Roy and Kevin use to play ball.  Needless to say Roy and Paul killed her and took her to Hopland grade where they planned to push her off the side in her car to make it look like an accident.  

I'm sorry but 16 or not they knew what they were doing and deserved the death penalty.  Unfortunately Roy and Paul just got 25 years to Life.  Kevin got placed in juvenile hall until he was 18 and then was transferred to a prison till his 25th birthday.  Kevin had stormed out of the barn when they first started to kill Jaime.  He received a reduced sentence for his involvement.

I guess if something like this never happenend close to home then you just may think differently on the subject.  They should atleast be checked out to see if they should stand trial as an adult.  Some folks may not be capable of comprehending things at that age but alot of them can.  With rulings like this now any kid whether they are sane or not can committ murder and get a slap on the hand.

[Halo]

And one of the two snipers who terrorized the Washington area and calculatingly murdered many people likely will be spared because he was under 18 at the time.

Deeds have consequences.  Doesn't matter the age or the so-called mental state.  Varying degrees of guilt (e.g., first degree, manslaughter, premeditated, accidental, etc.) can be applied to all ages and mental states, and commensurate penalties can be applied, including death for first degree premeditated murder.  

Society should not be obligated to reward murderers with free room and board the rest of their lives.  Or worse yet, parole them after x years for whatever excuse.  

If judged that they killed intentionally and without justification, they forfeit their right to existence.  Simple.  Justice.  

Yes, by all means BE SURE the culprit is guilty.  Then execute him or her.  Quickly and without remorse.  Remove the evil from society.  Law-abiding citizens deserve no less.  

I still remember a blatant murder years ago in Indiana.  We were friends with a farm family.  The husband was a jerk, the wife was wonderful.  

Apparently she had decided to leave him.  While she was filling her car's gas tank one day in town, he drove up, emptied his pistol into her, killed her, got a life sentence, and in his later years was paroled.  

That is not justice.  That is no deterrent to murder.  The consequences are too long, too easy, and too unfair to the victim's daughter, friends, and community.  

Kid shoots and kills his school bus driver?  Execute him.  Soon.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Anyone ever google David Kyle Gilley, as I suggested?
You really should, especially before you make foolish
statements about juvenile criminals.

You'll find that scumbag SOB to be the PERFECT example
of the "juvenile" perp, and why the Supreme Court is
WRONG. The state is NOT pursuing the death penalty
on this one, but they should.

In particular, note that not only did he commit murder,
(anyone familiar with the crime, the criminal, and the victim,
 knows who did it) but his behavior continued long
afterwards. Several young women were attacked.

We all knew who killed Laura back in 1984, but a rape
the SOB committed but got away with tainted some evidence.
(Of note, he did rape the girl in question, her family just
forced her to drop the charges, and the evidence collected
in the investigation became tainted after that).

Another point of note, is that several of us who were
between 17 and 21 at the time considered dealing
with him ourselves. However, we knew that would
be wrong, at least in the eyes of the law.

We waited 17 YEARS for them to be able to make the
case stick. We've waited ANOTHER FOUR YEARS for the
courts to try the case, but his legal maneuvering has
kept him out of jail and out of prison. This case has
been before the state Supreme Court THREE TIMES,
and he has never even been tried yet. He's even tried
to get the case moved to Juvenile Court because he
was 6 weeks short of his 18th birthday when he did it.
We now wait on the THIRD ruling of the state Supreme
Court to get the trial under way. The victim's mother
was not only my English teacher my senior year, this
year she is my daughter's English teacher. That's right,
the SOB has been free long enough after killing Laura
that I have a daughter nearly as old as he was when
he killed her. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the
delays continue. But he's guilty, and I'm patient. I'll see
him do the time. I will be there when they try him.

I often wonder if it is hard for Laura's mom to have my
daughter in her class, knowing that I knew both her
and her daughter well. Especially since my daughter's
name, is Laura. Not after Laura Salmon, my wife picked
the name and she never knew Laura Salmon.

I think I'll stop by Laura's grave today, it's been a while.
She's buried just a few feet from my wife's grandfather.
I may wait and take my daughter later this weekend. She
took AP English to go to college. She wants to be a lawyer.
Actually she wants to be a prosecuting attorney. Soon she'll
tell Laura Salmon's mom that, and thank her for being the
great teacher she is, and has been.

Kyle Gilley has now been a free man longer than Laura
Salmon was alive. He will not be executed for his crimes.
But he will eventually do the time.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Oh, and last night, on the local news, they said the "boy" who killed the bus driver, now claims he intended to shoot himself, and shot the bus driver by accident.

[WilldCrd]

Originally posted by Trell
What other group of people in this country.  could we make sure are not alowed to vote,   yet.  pass laws to gas them for making mistakes. and claim they are not responisible to have rights the right to vote. and chose what they believe is right,  but claim they know whats right when they do somehting wrong.

Answer: Convicted Felones...and apparantly this "child" was more than willing to join their ranks when he took another life