P-38G: Twin engined Spitfire!

[OIO]

dont bother slapshot, kweassa has this weird idea in his mind that p-38's out-turn spitfires ALL the time and that its ok to have the plane suffer from unrealistic flap retract because.. oh, because FIXING the thing would mean the 38 would perform better. Or something like that.

In any case, the 38's hold true to the golden rule:

P-38 will out-turn what out-runs it and will out-run what out-turns it.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by OIO
P-38 will out-turn what out-runs it and will out-run what out-turns it.

So it will out turn the Yak-9U, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ki-84 (speaking of the G and L, not the J in regards to the Ki-84)?

[humble]

Originally posted by java45
This is a game not Real Life, same as Bombers that can turnfight ( which btw wasnt possible either )

End of simple explanation

You need to be careful that you clarify 4 engine bombers...

The B-25/B-26 were capable of A to A...and the A-20/a-26 were down right dangerous...in fact the A-26 had a better than 1 to 1 kill ratio A to A vs opposing fighters in WW2...

[Killjoy2]

Lets have a fight!

Meet online and put the best p-38 pilots against the dweebs who fly spits, niks and ki-84's.

My money is on the p38s.

[38ruk]

This is some catch  we have here , most of this uber 38g stuff is pure crap.  looks like a way for someone to make an excuse for poor flyin ... my 2 cents     38MAW

[Kweassa]

Your like a kid who engages in a simple game of dodgeball and everytime you get hit, you change the rules.

"Oh well ... I meant that you have to bounce it off a tree and hit me in the left ear in order to get me out." .. "I'm still in."

 You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?

 Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.

 After all, that's where the nit-picking started; when I was explaining to SOMEONE ELSE who complained about how P-38s can 'turn with Spits'.. that it wasn't really outturning, but the P-38 was using its excellent natural advantage of maintaining gun solution upto very long periods due to its gentle and stable nature, so typically even a Spitfire might not be able to decisively outturn it before it gets shot at.

 Everything so far I wrote on this thread is good praise towards the plane. Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters? And, that is where the secret lies in how a 15 thousand lbs, two-engined, humongous sized plane may be able to keep up with a Spit?

If a P-38 comes in behind my Spit V with an E-advantage and decides to "dance around a bit with high yoyos, some lag pursuits, etc etc" has just lost his advantage and had better high-tail it out of there ... else his dance card will be punched for sure.

 Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.

 Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.

Conversly ... If I am in the P-38 I will be aggressive with the Spit ... not dance around ... and know just when to stop the aggresiveness and extend ... regroup and try again. Dance around a Spit V and your asking for trouble.

 Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.

 True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.

[Kweassa]

dont bother slapshot, kweassa has this weird idea in his mind that p-38's out-turn spitfires ALL the time and that its ok to have the plane suffer from unrealistic flap retract because.. oh, because FIXING the thing would mean the 38 would perform better. Or something like that.

 On the contrary. As with my reply to Slap, I was actually disagreeing with the original poster that the PG is a "twin engined Spitfire". And if you would have paid attention, you might actually have read where I wrote on my very first post in this thread;

Therefore, if somebody claims that the P-38 still matches the Spits, N1K2s, or Ki-84s in maneuvering, without the above described situation in place, that's actually the same thing as admitting the FM is entirely wrong

 Okay.. let's see.. where does it say 'p-38s out-turn spitfires ALL the time blahblahblah'? Doesn't it actually look more like, 'P-38s may out-turn Spits under certain circumstances'?

 Sure looks like that to me?

 Need bifocals, Tac?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Karnak
So it will out turn the Yak-9U, Spitfire Mk XIV and Ki-84 (speaking of the G and L, not the J in regards to the Ki-84)?

Well, the P-38G accelerates rather leisurely when compared to the other two P-38s. Likewise, climb rate is about 25% less. However, the G will easily out-turn a Yak-9U. Likewise, the SpitXIV pilot who decides to turn fight the G is foolish. Tha Spit, more than the SpitIX, is best used as an energy fighter, where its acceleration and climb can be best used.

Above 150 mph, the Ki-84 will have its hands very full with any P-38, but the J and L especially. Between 150 and 250, the P-38 has flaps deployed and will turn inside the Ki-84 with relative ease. If the Ki-84 survives long enough to get his flaps out (150 mph and less) he gets the advantage. But, by then the P-38 would have unloaded and extended. I'm assuming this fight occurs on the deck. Go up a several thousand feet and the P-38J/L accelerates as well or better than the Ki-84, and climbs a bit better too. At 10k or above, the Ki-84 is at a significant disadvantage in every category but very low-speed turning.

I recently checked actual acceleration times.

At all altitudes, the P-38J accelerates faster than the Yak-9U. Moreover, it climbs considerably faster as well. At sea level, the P-38J requires 36.57 seconds to accelerate from 200 mph to 300 mph. The Yak needs 37.40 seconds

As for the Ki-84, at sea level it needs 35.96 seconds to do the same. However, at 5k the P-38J accelerates a bit better than the Hayate. At 10k, the difference is significant. At 20k, the difference is huge, with the P-38J getting to 300 mph almost 15 seconds sooner. In fact, at 20k, the P-38J is the fastest accelerating prop fighter in the plane set, bar none. The Yak is far behind as well. Even the SpitXIV falls short, losing by 1.4 seconds.

Don't discount what a reasonably skilled pilot can do with the P-38J/L, it's easily in the top ten for all-around performance.

As an aside:

Tonight I did some speed runs with the faster fighters. Using E6B, I checked max speed at three altitudes, 28.5k, 25k and 20k.

Results are as follows.

28.5k
F4U-4: 445 mph
SpitXIV: 444 mph
109G-10: 436 mph
P-51D: 433 mph
P-38J: 412 mph
Fw 190D-9: 410 mph

25K
F4U-4: 446 mph
109G-10: 443 mph
P-51D: 441 mph (a bit faster than expected)
SpitXIV: 441 mph
Fw 190D-9: 421 mph
P-38J: 420 mph (within 0.5 mph of the Eglin Field tests, @ 420.5)

20k
109G-10: 444 mph
F4U-4: 439 mph
Fw 190D-9: 426 mph
P-51D: 425 mph
SpitXIV 420 mph
P-38J: 405 mph


My regards,

Widewing

[Redd]

Originally posted by Widewing
Well, the P-38G accelerates rather leisurely when compared to the other two P-38s. Likewise, climb rate is about 25% less. However, the G will easily out-turn a Yak-9U. Likewise, the SpitXIV pilot who decides to turn fight the G is foolish. Tha Spit, more than the SpitIX, is best used as an energy fighter, where its acceleration and climb can be best used.

Above 150 mph, the Ki-84 will have its hands very full with any P-38, but the J and L especially. Between 150 and 250, the P-38 has flaps deployed and will turn inside the Ki-84 with relative ease. If the Ki-84 survives long enough to get his flaps out (150 mph and less) he gets the advantage. But, by then the P-38 would have unloaded and extended. I'm assuming this fight occurs on the deck. Go up a several thousand feet and the P-38J/L accelerates as well or better than the Ki-84, and climbs a bit better too. At 10k or above, the Ki-84 is at a significant disadvantage in every category but very low-speed turning.

I recently checked actual acceleration times.

At all altitudes, the P-38J accelerates faster than the Yak-9U. Moreover, it climbs considerably faster as well. At sea level, the P-38J requires 36.57 seconds to accelerate from 200 mph to 300 mph. The Yak needs 37.40 seconds

As for the Ki-84, at sea level it needs 35.96 seconds to do the same. However, at 5k the P-38J accelerates a bit better than the Hayate. At 10k, the difference is significant. At 20k, the difference is huge, with the P-38J getting to 300 mph almost 15 seconds sooner. In fact, at 20k, the P-38J is the fastest accelerating prop fighter in the plane set, bar none. The Yak is far behind as well. Even the SpitXIV falls short, losing by 1.4 seconds.

Don't discount what a reasonably skilled pilot can do with the P-38J/L, it's easily in the top ten for all-around performance.

As an aside:

Tonight I did some speed runs with the faster fighters. Using E6B, I checked max speed at three altitudes, 28.5k, 25k and 20k.

Results are as follows.

28.5k
F4U-4: 445 mph
SpitXIV: 444 mph
109G-10: 436 mph
P-51D: 433 mph
P-38J: 412 mph
Fw 190D-9: 410 mph

25K
F4U-4: 446 mph
109G-10: 443 mph
P-51D: 441 mph (a bit faster than expected)
SpitXIV: 441 mph
Fw 190D-9: 421 mph
P-38J: 420 mph (within 0.5 mph of the Eglin Field tests, @ 420.5)

20k
109G-10: 444 mph
F4U-4: 439 mph
Fw 190D-9: 426 mph
P-51D: 425 mph
SpitXIV 420 mph
P-38J: 405 mph


My regards,

Widewing

Everytime your wife walks past , and you are sitting there with your stopwatch, does she just shake her head ?   I know mine would  

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Redd
Everytime your wife walks past , and you are sitting there with your stopwatch, does she just shake her head ?   I know mine would  

LOLOL

She's well past the head shaking stage.

Actually, my old stopwatch quit on me. So, when my wife went to Target a few weeks ago, she remembered that and bought me a new one.

Doing speed runs at altitude takes forever. It took more than 2 hours just to test the few above.

My regards,

Widewing

[SlapShot]

You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?

Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.

It's now over 3 years ... but what difference does that make and no I don't need you to explain anything to me.

You come into a thread post a Wall 'O Text with a very large brush, similar to what my twelve year old grand daughter why try to do when called on the carpet, and then she starts to scramble like you do under the same circumstances. Thats when the details come out and the more one scrambles the more foolish they look.

Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters?

Nope ... but your description of its advantages, as posted above, is wrong ... and thats exactly what I addressed my in post and thats when you started to scramble.

Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.

Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.

You need some quality yoke time (which you have none) to understand what they are talking about. I don't really care who you believe.

Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.

True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.

LOL .. no I am not an AKAK, a TAC, a KAPPA, a 38MAW, a FESTER, a BUG, a Silat, nor a Delirium, but I do know for a fact that I have far more time behind the yoke in a P38 than you and I AM a better P-38 pilot than you and speak thru experience (both P-38 and Spit V), not conjecture.

You are in no viable position to deem anybody a P(seudo)-38 pilot or a True P-38 pilot. Put in some serious yoke time and then come back and talk.

[Vudak]

Someone mention 38 vs. Spit fights?

Not sure I could do too well against the better 38 pilots out there, but that would definately be a blast...

38 vs. F6F usually fun too.

Any 38 pilots are interested, give me a holler

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by SlapShot
You've been playing this game for what, 2~3 years?

Do I really have to explain everything in detail to you to understand anything? A 12 year old kid would have understood the point I was making was that the P-38 at certain speed ranges holds a natural advantage against other single engined planes.

It's now over 3 years ... but what difference does that make and no I don't need you to explain anything to me.

You come into a thread post a Wall 'O Text with a very large brush, similar to what my twelve year old grand daughter why try to do when called on the carpet, and then she starts to scramble like you do under the same circumstances. Thats when the details come out and the more one scrambles the more foolish they look.

Care to deny the P-38 is a very capable plane that holds that certain advantage when compared to other single-engined fighters?

Nope ... but your description of its advantages, as posted above, is wrong ... and thats exactly what I addressed my in post and thats when you started to scramble.

Interestingly, some people in your very own P-38 pilot group are well known for their masculine chest-thumping on how they can easily follow everything a N1K or a Spitfire might do.

Who do you want me to believe? Make up your minds.

You need some quality yoke time (which you have none) to understand what they are talking about. I don't really care who you believe.

Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.

True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.

LOL .. no I am not an AKAK, a TAC, a KAPPA, a 38MAW, a FESTER, a BUG, a Silat, nor a Delirium, but I do know for a fact that I have far more time behind the yoke in a P38 than you and I AM a better P-38 pilot than you and speak thru experience (both P-38 and Spit V), not conjecture.

You are in no viable position to deem anybody a P(seudo)-38 pilot or a True P-38 pilot. Put in some serious yoke time and then come back and talk.

Hey SlapShot, if you've got some free time, I've got an anvil bolted to an old tree stump, I'd appreciate it if you'd try to talk some sense into them. Seems like you enjoy that sort of thing.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Then you're not a true P-38 pilot. Your a P(seudo)-38 pilot.

 True P-38 pilots are supposed to extend flaps and go full rudder, and try the tighest circle possible to keep up, until the flap auto-retracts and the plane stalls out.

It's with comments like that, that show you absolutely have no clue and really shouldn't be commenting on a plane you have 1)no experience in and 2) have no clue as to its performance.  But since it's the P-38, you have to come in and put your 2 cents worth of useless drivel.  You're dismissed.


ack-ack

[Guppy35]

And AKAK ought to know.  He's been flying the 38 since he was.....um....er....well....y ou get the idea

Sorry AKAK, it seemed like a good place for it

Dan