Italy Rejects U.S. Version of Iraq Shooting

[rabbidrabbit]

Originally posted by stegor
I've read some of the most  and ridiculous things, and some of the most dreadful opinions  on this BBS.
Even more convinced that "this is not America"
But you really scare  me guys:(

such as?

[gatt]

Originally posted by mosgood
If your country paid that ransom, they are funding terrorists.  Italy has grown a boot.... too bad it wasn't a backbone.

You are right, I dont agree with those paying ransom. We are waging war so we dont have to pay ransom.

Those ppl have paid a ransom so italy is funding terrorism, so that accident is not so terrible? Right?

The second sentence, just an *******'s sentence. Even you can understand what has been censored.

[gatt]

Originally posted by Toad
They were tried by courts martial; both were punished.

My god, thats what you call justice for 20 deads A joke that just some of you can call justice. Give them to italian judges and you'll see them back in USA after 20 years of tough jail.

[Drunky]

I just heard on NPR that the Italian government rejects her view that Americans were targeting her.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by gatt
My god, thats what you call justice for 20 deads A joke that just some of you can call justice. Give them to italian judges and you'll see them back in USA after 20 years of tough jail.

It was an accident. Yeah they were flying too low but it was not deliberate.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Raider179
It was an accident. Yeah they were flying too low but it was not deliberate.

And their map was marked incorrectly.

They were acquitted of that, but then retried for obstructing justice after it was learned they burned a video tape of the incident.

[gatt]

Actually, just communists here believe that she has been deliberately targeted by US troops. A fool idea, imho.

[Toad]

Originally posted by gatt
My god, thats what you call justice for 20 deads

No, you'll note I did not call it anything at all.

I merely pointed out that you were incorrect and didn't know what you were talking about when you said:

Both are free and without any trial.

They were tried by courts martial.

Originally posted by gatt
Give them to italian judges and you'll see them back in USA after 20 years of tough jail.

Well, if you were the judge, what sentence would you hand down?

Review the Defense position and then tell us what YOU would do:

During defense testimony on Thursday, Navy Cmdr. Fred Patterson, an expert on visual phenomena, said Ashby's view of the horizon was blocked by mountains when he entered the valley where the ski lift was located. Ashby instead focused on a horizontal line formed by white rocks and buildings at the end of the valley, which left the pilot with the impression that his aircraft was higher than it was, Patterson said.

Patterson said the false horizon could draw a pilot lower and cause him to fly straight through the ski lift cables. In addition, the open valley would have limited his peripheral vision, which might otherwise have indicated the plane was flying too fast, he said.

Defense attorneys also argue that Ashby's charts did not show the Mount Cermis ski lift, and that the jet's altimeter malfunctioned.

[Shamus]

Originally posted by Lizard3
From an article found on MSN:
"Sgrena — who works for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, a fierce opponent of the war and a frequent critic of U.S. policy"


Uh, thats all I need to know.

MSN article

And thats what feeds the fire.

shamus

[SOB]

Originally posted by Curval
It must be a cultural thing..you know...the inability of some nations and their people to admit a mistake was made.

Gotta be cultural.

What about being an ass, and defining an entire nation by a few of its citizens' opinions, posted on an Intardnet BBS?  I kinda doubt that's cultural, what would you say it is?

[gatt]

Well, they flew below allowed alt. They didnt hit a simple ski lift, they hit the lines of a (I dunno the translation) big metal box travelling about 20 meters high with 20 skiers inside. A fixed thing with pillars that has been there for years and years. Old maps and malfunctioning altimeter? C'mon, we are Italy but not South America in the '70 and '80 ...

You are simply technically explaining why a couple of idiots did a mistake flying too low. But they had already done the biggest mistake: disobey an order, just to feel what flying in a narrow crowded valley is. Exhilarating, I guess. But it was Italy and not Afghanistan. But probably your military judges consider your allied countries "your" training fields.

A 20 ppl murder? And then they destroyed the flight recorder? What do you do in USA for such ppl? No, I'm not for death penalty. 30 years would be enuff. Ah, I was forgetting they were USA army men out of every law in every part of the world. USA is even against international law courts. So, what the hell am I saying? All wasted breath.

[rabbidrabbit]

By all definition in any country murder implies deliberate intent.  Even you can't make that claim.

[SOB]

The whole incident was a horrible mistake whichever way it comes out.  It was, obviously, a mistake by our troops, in that they did fire upon and kill and/or injure the Italians in that car.  However, I firmly believe our troops acted as restrained as can be expected in the situation they were in.  I hope that my belief is backed up by facts when the investigation is complete.  I would sooner think the problem was a breakdown in communication between the Italians and us, or from our point of contact down to our own troops.  They've got a hell of a job to do, and I can't fault them for erring on the side of caution, even when that has such tragic results.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the car carrying Giuliana Sgrena was traveling on one of the most dangerous roads in Iraq on Friday when it was fired upon. An Italian intelligence officer in the car was shot and killed.
...
He said the airport road “has been a place where suicide car bombers have launched attacks. It’s been a place where regime elements have fired upon coalition forces. It is a dangerous road and it is a combat zone that our coalition forces are in. Oftentimes, they have to make split second decisions to protect their own security.”

On the other hand, it's a shame the life of the brave Italian agent had to be wasted for this piece of garbage.

Reporter's comments
Sgrena — who works for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, a fierce opponent of the war and a frequent critic of U.S. policy — said it was possible they were targeted deliberately because the United States opposes Italy’s policy of negotiating with kidnappers.

In an interview published Monday in the Corriere della Sera newspaper, she said she doesn’t know what led to the attack.

“I believe, but it’s only a hypothesis, that the happy ending to the negotiations must have been irksome,” she said. “The Americans are against this type of operation. For them, war is war, human life doesn’t count for much.”

In separate remarks Sunday, she said that “the fact that the Americans don’t want negotiations to free the hostages is known.”

“The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostage, everybody knows that,” she added, speaking to Sky TG24 television by telephone from his hospital bed, where she is recovering from a shrapnel wound. “So I don’t see why I should rule out that I could have been the target.”

*the full story that the above quotes were pulled from is from MSNBC at: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7089948/

[Shamus]

Originally posted by gatt
My god, thats what you call justice for 20 deads A joke that just some of you can call justice. Give them to italian judges and you'll see them back in USA after 20 years of tough jail.

No its not typical of the sentences metted out over here for crimes envolving death.

In many instances we have drunk drivers who have killed folk serving sentences for 2nd degree murder up to and including life.

shamus

[Toad]

Originally posted by gatt
Old maps and malfunctioning altimeter? C'mon, we are Italy but not South America in the '70 and '80 ...

....You are simply technically explaining why a couple of idiots did a mistake flying too low.  

I am not "technically explaining" anything. I'm offering you the points their defense lawyers highlighted at the trial you said did not happen.

As for old maps, if the ski gondola was not on the map, how do you blame the pilot for that part? He was issued the map, he didn't pick the source for the map.

As for the altimeter malfunction, IF it was malfunctioning, how do you blame the pilot for that? Things break you know.

As for the "flying too low", I'd have to go back and re-read the testimony. Was there a standing order that they were in violation of regarding altitude? If so, THAT'S where you can place blame on the crew.

Now, if they violated that order, does that make them guilty of murder? Of course not; there was no intent.