Author Topic: All Union Brothers and Sisters (Read 4130 times)

Lazerus · « **Reply #105 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:23:03 AM »

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Originally posted by Urchin
Lazerus, do you think the safety record at the port would be better or worse without the union?

I honostly have no way of forming an opinion on that.

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Do you think the dockworkers would make more money or less without the union?

Again, I have no way to form an opinion on this. The cost of negotiation with unions, union dues, all could be recouped and added to their pay. They might make more. They might not actualy be worth what they are getting paid, and the market would dictate that they make less. That is the important part. Employment is a contract. You agree to do a certain job, and a company agrees to reimburse you a certain amount for that job. It is an agreement based on market, not strong arm tactics. If their skills and expertise are worth more, if the demand for their skills and expertise is high, then the market will dictate a higher pay. If they are not, then the market will reflect that too.

JB88 · « **Reply #106 on:** March 13, 2005, 11:20:32 AM »

except that you are leaving out the other half of that equasion again which is the multimillion dollared salary people refusing to let go of a part of the beanpile so that others can be paid a decent wage for the services that they provide.

unions were created to provide a buffer.

like them or not, and i can understand why one wouldnt like them, they are not going anywhere soon.

thier purpose is to represent the interest of the body of workers as a whole, to negotiate contracts and employment terms in a way that counters the natural selfishness that comes from the brass.

the market seems to have no problem giving them a raise when stocks are sinking, people are getting laid off and conditions are growing worse. its abhorant and gross.

you might say...well, they can just go hire some guy in a third world country to do the labor. yep. and eventually they to are going to get tired of getting nothing while the top gets everything and form a union. even at the risk of bloodshed.

its how it goes.

its a seesaw.

Sled · « **Reply #107 on:** March 13, 2005, 11:43:26 AM »

what is your Avatar 88? it looks familiar.

Steve · « **Reply #108 on:** March 13, 2005, 11:50:34 AM »

It's amazing to me that there are people out there who are stupid enough to believe that any organization that forces a wage to be paid to someone whos skills are not commensurate w/ said wage is a boon to anyone.

Sixpence · « **Reply #109 on:** March 13, 2005, 11:52:50 AM »

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Originally posted by Steve
It's amazing to me that there are people out there who are stupid enough to believe that any organization that forces a wage to be paid to someone whos skills are not commensurate w/ said wage is a boon to anyone.

So, no minimum wage?

Sled · « **Reply #110 on:** March 13, 2005, 11:59:43 AM »

Steve, you are correct. In some cases that does happen. In most cases though if you can't do the work you are not going to be employed. This is certainly the case in most if not all construction type work. In my line of work, if we have a guy comes around that is not pulling his weight, we the Hands will run him off. If not then the GF will give him a "one man lay-off". Sometimes it happens for no more reason than you don't get along with a crew.

Sixpence · « **Reply #111 on:** March 13, 2005, 12:03:18 PM »

I say the job I have is only worth paying someone two dollars an hour. Now this damn American union is telling me I have to pay over six dollars an hour?! Damn this commy country, I am taking my business to China where I can pay them three cents an hour.

Steve · « **Reply #112 on:** March 13, 2005, 12:06:36 PM »

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In my line of work, if we have a guy come around that is not pulling his weight, we the Hands will run him off. If not then the GF will give him a "one man lay-off".

ahhh this is a good thing. It's nice to know that some unions(and their members) expect results from themselves and their union mates.

* edit: Thank you for this enlightenment, I cannot explain why but I find the lesson you just gave me very pleasing.

Steve · « **Reply #113 on:** March 13, 2005, 12:07:08 PM »

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So, no minimum wage?

Absolutely not, IMHO.

Urchin · « **Reply #114 on:** March 13, 2005, 12:59:23 PM »

Certainly not, it is much better for a country to have 1% of the population making 95% of the money, than it is for there to be any kind of equitable distribution of wealth. Any good Republican can tell you that. Of course, the really amusing thing is most of them don't realize they are lemmings just like the rest of us... if half the **** Republicans want to do actually gets done, the moronic supporters (read, the supporters who aren't multi-millionares+) will be harmed along with all the whoopee ******s and spics ruining our great country

USGriff · « **Reply #115 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:01:45 PM »

Local 777 SPFPA Stand and be Recognized

USGriff

Sled · « **Reply #116 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:06:37 PM »

Hey GRIFF!! ~~Brother!~~

JB88 · « **Reply #117 on:** March 13, 2005, 01:29:17 PM »

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Originally posted by SLED
what is your Avatar 88? it looks familiar.

jonny depp as hunter s. thompson in fear and loathing in las vegas

Steve · « **Reply #118 on:** March 13, 2005, 02:58:39 PM »

Urchin, Here's a couple of quick lessons in economics:

Example: Raise the minimum wage to let's say, $25.00 an hour. That's great right? Now even people who work at Mcdonald's can afford a nice big house, right?

Who do you think pays for the artifically raised union wages, the higher minimum wage? Does the employer? NO

The consumers(read you and I) do.

One should earn as much money as one is worth. In Arizona for instance, most fast food places pay more than minimum wage because there is a dearth of reliable employees. Raise the minimum wage and the unqualified will be making money they do not deserve and the price of your big mac will go up. Get it?

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #119 on:** March 13, 2005, 03:00:49 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Steve
Urchin, Here's a couple of quick lessons in economics:

Example: Raise the minimum wage to let's say, $25.00 an hour. That's great right? Now even people who work at Mcdonald's can afford a nice big house, right?

Who do you think pays for the artifically raised union wages, the higher minimum wage? Does the employer? NO

The consumers(read you and I) do.

One should earn as much money as one is worth. In Arizona for instance, most fast food places pay more than minimum wage because there is a dearth of reliable employees. Raise the minimum wage and the unqualified will be making money they do not deserve and the price of your big mac will go up. Get it?

Trick question.. At $25.00 an hour they would all be unemployed...