All Union Brothers and Sisters

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Toad
Like most, you pigeon-hole me and do so incorrectly.

I didn't do so intentionally, that's why I clarified my position. Well, clarify might be strong, I never actually posted it.

I do strongly believe that the unions in their present form are exactly what I said they were at the begining of this thread.

[Toad]

The system you rely on to make Unions redundant DOESN'T WORK.

It NEVER will work.

But go on living in cloud cuckoo land if you like.

The has to be a balancing force, like it or not. It's due to the human nature of management. They fall victim to all the seven deadly sins just like any other human, including union officials.

Balance.

[Sled]

I just think that the power of the unions needs to be moved back to the local level. The national representatives have a track record of not looking out for the employees or their company.

If by that you mean, Union representatives on the national level are out of touch with the working people of this country. You may be right.  I would be the first to agree that the Unions of this country need to get back to the real reason that they were created. Worker safety, fair wages for fair work, and the 8 hour work day.

[Lazerus]

Works where I live. Only union around here is down at the port. They have more accidents and deaths than any other place around here.

My personal opinion is that the unions are far more corrupt than the regulatory agencies of the US. Granted, the same people that abuse the unions would probably migrate into those agencies as experts and corrupt them further if the unions were eliminated. And I'm not saying that they should be eliminated BTW.

I just think that the power of the unions needs to be moved back to the local level. The national representatives have a track record of not looking out for the employees or their company.

We obviously have a difference of opinion. I don't think either one of us is going to change our mind.

But before you write me off as some anti-worker fascist, consider the option of maintaining authority in local unions, where people who's day to day lives are involved with the people they represent and the companies who's welfare has a direct effect on those people.

But go on living in cloud cuckoo land if you like.

There's no reason to start that.

[Sixpence]

We, as a nation, are a union, and I am damn proud of it.

Mailhandlers Local 301

United we stand, divided we fall

[Sled]

But go on living in cloud cuckoo land if you like.

Aaah, that was minor Laz, But your right we are having a civil discussion here.

Works where I live. Only union around here is down at the port. They have more accidents and deaths than any other place around here.

Who? sounds like something is missing there.

Well if that is true they have a big problem, but I guess it is as much the workers fault as it is managements or the LU.

[Sled]

Sixpence!! Welcome Brother!

Sled
IBEW LU 1547
Anchorage, AK

Journeyman Power lineman

Bringing power to the People!

"Linemen risk there lives bringing power into yours"

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by SLED
Sixpence!! Welcome Brother!

Sled
IBEW LU 1547
Anchorage, AK

Journeyman Power lineman

Bringing power to the People!

"Linemen risk there lives bringing power into yours"

Saw a documentary on that not too long ago. That's a tough craft my friend. They showed how they work on lines with helicopters, they actually attach to the lines and have all that current flowing through the chopper and the worker, I guess you are safe as long as you don't ground out on something(not sure how it works really)

Buddy of mine is in the electricians local 103, he has to do 5 years of school before he can get his license(not to mention 6 years experience). The locals requirements are even tougher than state requirements.

[Toad]

I'm sorry but I know of no other more polite way to say you are totally out of touch with the reality of working in such plants in the USA today.

[Sixpence]

Originally posted by ATA
Union is a commy thing(i know it from my own experience),no matter what you do it's almost impossible to loose the job as long as you with union.

You don't perform, the contractor will not call you for it's next job. The contractor usually has a core of union workers it likes that show up everyday and do quality work. They want them for their projects. Robert Kraft's stadium was union built, on time, on budget.

[Sled]

Union is a commy thing(i know it from my own experience),no matter what you do it's almost impossible to loose the job as long as you with union.

This is sort of true in some cases. But as a rule (in my profession anyway) you can be fired for almost anything. Sometimes it is called a one man lay-off But the end result is the same.

It's happened to me.

[Nash]

Originally posted by ATA
Toad please accept my....

You're in Providence? I think yer the only one here from there. Great town.

Uh... unions... I flip back and forth on the subject every time I hear someone say something intelligent - pro or con - about them.

Right now it's this: "The only thing worse than a Union is no Union" - Toad

Just one of those things that rings true.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Toad
you are totally out of touch with the reality of working in such plants in the USA today.

Just out of curiosity Toad, when was the last time you worked in a plant or a wharehouse?

[culero]

Originally posted by Airhead
Culero, my motives are as selfish (well, more so actually) as they are noble. If I have a Union bug I can bid on political and State work, which is pretty lucrative....plus political work is all C.O.D.

That makes perfect sense to me. I was self-employed for 2 decades, and during that time had the chance to do some work for public money. It gets paid promptly and at top rates, great stuff for any business.

Better yet, what I did was for the local DEA office - repair their undercover cars. They were confiscated property, so no government regs or procedures were involved as would have been with fleet stuff, we just decided what to do and did it. Plus, they paid COD with confiscated CASH

Originally posted by Airhead
But I also wish to grow a business that provides careers for people, not just jobs.

Admirable.

The reason I closed my business was that I reached a point where I needed more than part time entry level help (I was a one-technician shop, just used assistants for scut work). I hit a plateau in terms of yearly GP that I realized I wasn't gonna grow anymore. The alternatives were to accept that, expand, or close.

I executed a business plan when an acquaintance offered to contribute a comnercial location he owned to a corporation consisting of me so that I could collateralize a new facility and startup. SBA assisted me with demographic studies and offered to back the loan, I had two offers from oil companies to pay me a signing bonus for a contract to feature their bulk product, and my personal banker told me screw SBA, we don't need 'em, and made me a very attractive financing offer for every cent I needed.

The one thing I did that was questioned by everyone involved was build in a compensation structure for my staff that included well-above-average salary for my area, substantial performance incentives, and group medical coverage. I told them I was 1) NOT going to accept the pain in my a** that turnover due to inadequate compensation for quality help creates 2) NOT going to accept less than sterling quality people as employees 3) NOT going to treat quality people like crap.

They shut up

culero (then the bastard landowner got a better offer)

[Urchin]

Lazerus, do you think the safety record at the port would be better or worse without the union?  

Do you think the dockworkers would make more money or less without the union?