Author Topic: All Union Brothers and Sisters (Read 3065 times)

SOB · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:15:05 AM »

I worked in a closed shop once. Was employed there for about three years without paying any dues or initiation. In other words, I paid them every penny they were worth to me. The only real cost to me was having to periodically talk to the weasely union rep hitting me up for money and threatening to have me canned if I didn't pay up.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:20:59 AM »

Unions...LOL Only thing more worthy of a chuckle from me is a mason.

Sled · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:21:03 AM »

You guys going to use lures or bait?

Raubvogel · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:23:07 AM »

You're still here?

Sled · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2005, 02:28:44 AM »

^^ Yellow check mark = Yes

culero · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:28:04 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by SOB
I worked in a closed shop once. Was employed there for about three years without paying any dues or initiation. In other words, I paid them every penny they were worth to me. The only real cost to me was having to periodically talk to the weasely union rep hitting me up for money and threatening to have me canned if I didn't pay up.

My experience was worse. First gig out of the USAF I went to work for the Denver Coca Cola plant. Closed shop, worse they just automatically payroll deduct the union tariff (Teamsters).

I was given no choice, never saw a union rep, never saw any tangible benefit for this larceny.

Plus, it happened the Teamsters local office was one of my accounts. I was there regularly. Friggin' place was a ghost town, I rarely met a human while there, just checked my vending machine and left. Looked like a screw-shack, for sure as an office it was a sham, nothing going on.

The experience left me with a negative attitude towards unions. If this is typical, it not only ought not to be allowed by law (the closed shop crap) but oughta be prosecuted for fraud, IMO.

culero

bunch · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:37:52 AM »

the gunfight at the end of Matewan[/i] is amongst the best

KBall · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2005, 03:43:10 AM »

I live in a right to work state and believe in "choice" which most unions do not. I support the local union in "local matters". Now when it comes to state and national politics we butt heads. I believe labor unions are organized crime and should be castrated and put back in their place. The AFL-CIO is bad enough but labor unions are on a different planet.

Instrument 1
IBEW Local 612
Wheatland, WY

Rolex · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2005, 04:01:12 AM »

I had the pleasure of negotiating with both the IBEW and the Steelworkers in the early 80's.

In the IBEW case in St. Louis, the union workers on the floor sabotaged $18 million worth of custom engineered equipment being manufactured as a 'pre-bargaining' warning. I shut the plant down and put 230 people out of work while moving the product line to another facitlity. Only moved 3 people to the new facility after they spent 3 months in the field repairing the shipped equipment.

Never had a problem with the IBEW after that.

In the Steelworkers case, I was trying to turn around a factory in Chicago that had been losing money for 3 years - for no reason other than complacency by a workforce with an average of 27 years seniority.

Had a million dollar bottom line turnaround in first year by working with the local union to establish some work and production incentives that would pay those who produced, and not pay so well those who didn't want to produce. Everything was going fine until... the national union guys decided they wanted a big raise (more union dues) so they sent a 'negotiator' to deal with the big bad management - me.

We were already paying $6 more per hour than our competitors and had an offer laying on the table to move the facility to North Carolina. NC would help finance construction, pay for employee training, subsidize wages on a graduated scale for 3 years and defer local property taxes for 5 years if we moved the factory. I resisted out of loyality to the employees who worked hard to help make the plant profitable again.

As I sat at the table across from the national union guy and the local shop rep ( a single mother with 2 kids), the Steelworker big shot laid out his demands for 20% across the board increases and a no layoffs contract for 3 years. of course, I said no.

Union guy says they'll strike and the local rep smirked.

I looked at the local rep and explained that after your strike benefits are up, you'll have to find another place to work and the union bigshot will simply go back to New York and collect his salary.

It was a losing battle. The union big shot filled the union workers full of "brothers and sisters solidarity" stuff at the union meeting that night. They bought it hook, line and sinker and vowed to strike.

The factory was moved, the workers lost their jobs, the union guy went back to New York and I ended my career as a turnaround specialist. I couldn't stomach it any more.

Union brothers...

Skydancer · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2005, 06:13:03 AM »

I'm in a Union. Be daft not to be.

Think maybe the history of Unions in this country is different to the US. Our Unions were developed to protect workers from extrodinary exploitation.

I don't recall them becoming embroiled in the kind of protectionism and organised crime that seems to have influenced Unions in the US. Corruption at times maybe. But on Balance better to have organisations looking out for workers rights than trusting in the not so benevalent bosses to do it for us.

We had a govt during the 80s that attempted to crush Unions. ( good old Maggie) In doing so she also crushed our manufacturing base. Coal industry and squandered our oil revenue paying unemployment benefit to over 3 million people. Thank god she's gone but we still live with the damage done.

"There is Power in a Union"

oboe · « **Reply #25 on:** March 12, 2005, 06:28:32 AM »

Rolex gave a couple of great examples of tragically poor union leadership, and others probably abound. Its really unfortunate, because what SkyDancer says is true I think.

I give credit to unions and the GI Bill following WWII for swelling the ranks of the American middle class. But I can see how people would be of the mind that unions got too powerful, esp in the US auto, airline, and steel industries.

Its too bad because the alternative to no unions will be experiences like those suffered by workers in the Phillippines, Indonesia and China.

-tronski- · « **Reply #26 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:16:44 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skydancer
I'm in a Union. Be daft not to be.

Think maybe the history of Unions in this country is different to the US. Our Unions were developed to protect workers from extrodinary exploitation.

I don't recall them becoming embroiled in the kind of protectionism and organised crime that seems to have influenced Unions in the US. Corruption at times maybe. But on Balance better to have organisations looking out for workers rights than trusting in the not so benevalent bosses to do it for us.

We had a govt during the 80s that attempted to crush Unions. ( good old Maggie) In doing so she also crushed our manufacturing base. Coal industry and squandered our oil revenue paying unemployment benefit to over 3 million people. Thank god she's gone but we still live with the damage done.

"There is Power in a Union"

I've been a unionist for a fair while, and the unions I've been in aren't run like the american ones it seems.

When Ansett airlines went bust due to complete corporate incompetence, it was the unions which managed to get part of our redundancies out of the mess that was left, instead of the workers always been last to recieve anything from the carcass of a corporate collapse.

Tronsky

lazs2 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:30:15 AM »

believe it or not I am in a union. My guys all are and I don't think it is fair for me to not pay into it.

I am not your "brother" any more than the guys who dressed up like bikers in the 70's were my "bro's".

I would much rather see a negotiating unit and a employment relations lawyer on retainer by the employees. The HR department in most companies and cities these days is the company version of those things. The company should pay as much for the employee version as they pay for their own POS HR toady.

lazs

culero · « **Reply #28 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:33:36 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
snip
The factory was moved, the workers lost their jobs, the union guy went back to New York and I ended my career as a turnaround specialist. I couldn't stomach it any more.

Union brothers...

Yeah.

On a side note, kudos. The business negotiation is an art, and I admire a man who realizes the value of that

culero (in the middle of a company/contractor negotiation right now that's a real hoot)

Toad · « **Reply #29 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:34:29 AM »

I was in ALPA for many years.

I said from the first and I say now "The only thing worse than a Union is no Union."

Which came first? Bad, unjust, unsafe management or Unions?

Duh.

It's a pendulum. There is a point where Unions are bad and out of control. There is a point where Management is bad and out of control. The pendulum started with Management being bad and out of control. For every case Rolex can post of bad, stupid Union decisions, there are probably twice as many of bad, stupid Managment decisions.

It's all about greed, chums. Both Management and Unions are susceptible to it. Without Unions, there is no counterbalance to Management greed; the balancing force is Union greed.

There is no win/win here; there are only varying degrees of lose/lose.