Author Topic: All Union Brothers and Sisters (Read 3049 times)

culero · « **Reply #30 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:35:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
Rolex gave a couple of great examples of tragically poor union leadership, and others probably abound. Its really unfortunate, because what SkyDancer says is true I think.

I give credit to unions and the GI Bill following WWII for swelling the ranks of the American middle class. But I can see how people would be of the mind that unions got too powerful, esp in the US auto, airline, and steel industries.

Its too bad because the alternative to no unions will be experiences like those suffered by workers in the Phillippines, Indonesia and China.

My stated experience with US unionism aside, I agree.

culero

culero · « **Reply #31 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:40:18 AM »

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Originally posted by lazs2
snip
The company should pay as much for the employee version as they pay for their own POS HR toady.

lazs

I'm a truly fortunate man.

I actually work for a fairly large (nationwide) corporation that has HR both at corporate and local level who truly represent the best interest of both company and employee. They do business as business should be done, in a completely fair and even-handed fashion. Both policy and practice are in alignment, and all by specific intent of corporate management.

Sounds too good to be true, but it is, in every detail. Its always my pleasure to see my HR guy in the office, get his e-mails, etc. I love it.

culero (no union needed here)

oboe · « **Reply #32 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:43:18 AM »

Just as a pendulum ultimately comes to rest in the middle, you'd think that eventually labor/management relations would realize a stable, middling course would be better for both parties in the long run.

But all to often someone comes along a gives the pendulum a big shove. And I agree with Toad, greed is the prime motivator.

I think Lazs' idea has some merit, except that to expect a lawyer to negotiate in good faith on behalf of the employees, the lawyer must be paid by the employees - otherwise its a case of hiring a fix to guard the hen house.

culero · « **Reply #33 on:** March 12, 2005, 08:59:39 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
snip
I think Lazs' idea has some merit, except that to expect a lawyer to negotiate in good faith on behalf of the employees, the lawyer must be paid by the employees - otherwise its a case of hiring a fix to guard the hen house.

Yes but.

What you describe could/might be an example of a union...as it should be.

We in America tend to have problems with our government and our unions for the EXACT same reason - we allow power to be gathered at too central of a level (for convenience's sake, mostly, unfortunately).

Ross Perot said it best in his first campaign - if you want to know what's wrong with your government (I add "union" here) go look in the mirror.

Politics both public and private serve those in subject best when the subjects take direct control and maintain constant involvement. Power To The People!

culero

oboe · « **Reply #34 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:12:50 AM »

oh, meant 'fox' not 'fix' but I'm sure you understood what I meant.

Those are very populist sentiments, Culero. I voted for Perot.

If you could skim the center-leaning 50% off of each party and create a new party in the middle, you might wind up with a superparty that could rarely be defeated. After a while that wouldn't be so good, but it sure would be satisfying to see the real 'middle' America get representation solely for themselves and not have to put up with the extreme fringes demands as they so often do.

Airhead · « **Reply #35 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:19:23 AM »

I'm one employee away from Unionizing my shop (Western Graphic Arts Union Local 14) cause it requires three employees.

I worked for years with police and fire fighters Unions, and one of my brothers (real one, not a Union one) is the Director of Litigation for the American Federation of Government Employees.

I am, proudly, pro Union and feel they're the last bastion of the middle class.

~~Sled for bringing it up.~~

Airhead · « **Reply #36 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:23:11 AM »

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Originally posted by Skydancer

Think maybe the history of Unions in this country is different to the US. Our Unions were developed to protect workers from extrodinary exploitation.

Why, but of course! Your Unions were formed for noble purposes while our Unions were formed by criminals wanting to make a buck!

Is it possible for you to make a post that ISN'T critical of the USA?

Skydancer · « **Reply #37 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:47:05 AM »

Go look at the thread on Iranian Protesters! Credit due to US. But hey I'm not criticising the US. I'm merely pointing out that your unions appeared to go through a corrupt phase. as infact did ours. Just the architects of the corruption were different. Not one better than the other.

Lose the Paranoia! The world doesn't hate the US. We just don't like your Pres

The rest of you guys are OK.

culero · « **Reply #38 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:47:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe
snip
If you could skim the center-leaning 50% off of each party and create a new party in the middle, you might wind up with a superparty that could rarely be defeated. After a while that wouldn't be so good, but it sure would be satisfying to see the real 'middle' America get representation solely for themselves and not have to put up with the extreme fringes demands as they so often do.

Word, brother.

culero

culero · « **Reply #39 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:50:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Airhead
I'm one employee away from Unionizing my shop (Western Graphic Arts Union Local 14) cause it requires three employees.

I worked for years with police and fire fighters Unions, and one of my brothers (real one, not a Union one) is the Director of Litigation for the American Federation of Government Employees.

I am, proudly, pro Union and feel they're the last bastion of the middle class.

~~Sled for bringing it up.~~

If you're saying you have experience with current unions that are good in characteristics rather then exploitive, I am truly glad to hear it.

I support the union concept, just not what my life experience has shown me is current application of that concept here in the US.

Its kinda like capital punishment - I want it, I just don't trust the administrators to apply it with justice.

culero (but that's another thread, eh? )

Airhead · « **Reply #40 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:55:56 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skydancer
Go look at the thread on Iranian Protesters!

Lose the Paranoia!

So coming to the painfully obvious conclusion you have a bias against America- based upon what you've said about us under a couple of different shades accounts, countless times- is paranoia??

I think having to use shades accounts shows paranoia, and refusing to admit you were Zulu7 shows inherent dishonesty is a large part of your character...or lack thereof.

I hope people consider the source when reading your anti American drivel...I know I will from now on.

Airhead · « **Reply #41 on:** March 12, 2005, 09:59:47 AM »

Culero, my motives are as selfish (well, more so actually) as they are noble. If I have a Union bug I can bid on political and State work, which is pretty lucrative....plus political work is all C.O.D.

But I also wish to grow a business that provides careers for people, not just jobs.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #42 on:** March 12, 2005, 10:03:49 AM »

I've seen more than a few examples of what rolex was talking about with the National Union rep spoiling a good thing for the local guys.

Almost every single time the guy at the National level really didn't care about the local guys they just wanted a bigger cut or to stirr up the pot were they don't belong.

More often than not this means a factory or such is no longer a profitable venture and instead of all these great benifits the national guy promised them the local guys get an unemployment check instead.

Meanwhile the national guy is on a plane heading to his next disaster and still on a payroll.

I heard about an entire factory that moved to Texas to get away from the Unions because they were killing them. All was well, people were happy, the plant was making money.......until the Union showed up and shut the place down.

I'm not saying Unions are all bad, some go along ways to protect workers rights and provide good benifits. Mostly though I think they really don't care about the workers....just the union.

Skydancer · « **Reply #43 on:** March 12, 2005, 10:04:59 AM »

Airhead. The Zulu war ended ages ago! Move along please.

This sniping and griping just stifles the discussion. If you don't want to respond to me don't. Simple realy.

respect is due for

"But I also wish to grow a business that provides careers for people, not just jobs."

To my mind that makes you more than just one of "the bosses"

Now have a good weekend won't you.

Airhead · « **Reply #44 on:** March 12, 2005, 10:13:20 AM »

I DID respond to you- you called me paranoid, and I pointed out your behavior is more paranoid than mine- I've had this ID for a long, long time, through good and bad, thick and thin- and I've eaten my share of crow here without feeling the need to change IDs for a "fresh start."

Now have a nice day.