All Union Brothers and Sisters

[oboe]

To be fair though, why would the Unions assume the Company was bluffing, unless it had done so in the past?

I remember not to long ago - maybe a few months - an airline had just wrung salary concessions out of its pilots or mechanics, something like that - and then figures for very large increases in compensation for the airline's executives were released.   AFTER the wage concessions were inked.

I remember it sparked a discussion on this board when I posted it.

[Rolex]

Because 80% of the population is stupid? If you don't believe me, take a little notepad with you for a day and make a note every time you see or hear someone stupid. Never underestimate the power of stupidity to influence events.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Lazerus
Well, I wouldn't mind hearing them. This is where I was trying to get the conversation to.

You aren't going to change your mind. Neither am I.

I can read the OSHA reports, the reports of lost fingers, limbs and lives.

I flew the line, I know that safety changes originate in the cockpit and if they cost a dime, then you have to take a pay cut to get it.

Just putting strobes on airliners... which Cessnas had standard for years, took about a 10 year struggle with the company.

I've seen my brother go through the bankruptcy at Eastern, lose his pension while Lorenzo walked with multi-millions (side note, Lorenzo took over, Eastern sold it's reservations system to Lorenzo and then had to pay Lorenzo twice what it used to cost them when they owned it.)

Trump actually treated the employees fairly and well.

US Air stole their pay while Wolf and Gangwhal awarded themselves $40+ million in bonuses. US Air stole his Trump pension, which had been rolled into the US Air system.

The Bad Managments are greedy to an extent that corrupt Union bosses can only dream about.

I've seen bad stuff from the Unions too.

That's why I said long ago "The only thing worse than a Union is NO Union."

Both sides suck to an immeasurable degree. But you must have both sides for balance.

[Steve]

Because 80% of the population is stupid?

My personal studies show this number to be btween 75% and 80%.  This is not based on what people say, but how they drive.

[Lazerus]

Originally posted by Toad
You aren't going to change your mind. Neither am I.
 

When this is understood, it's easy to have a civil exchange of opinions.

It's always good to listen to opinions from someone that holds a different view. Sometimes you look at things a little differently. You always learn something if you really listen.

Feel good lecture is over.

[Toad]

I hope you learned this:

The only thing worse than a Union is NO Union.

[6GunUSMC]

[6GunUSMC]

Another thought... Why should I or ANY other business owner be forced into a contract with an organization that took NONE of the financial risks that I took in starting or expanding my company???  Why should they dictate wages, benefits, working hours at all???  The free market should dictate what a job is worth to an employer.  If an employer pays chump change, he will not attract workers who can compete.  BUT at the same time 2 employees that have the same experience and same time on the job are not necessarily equal in their value.  Why should they be paid the same???  I guarantee that If I had employees unionize I would find any and every way to get rid of them!!!

[Hajo]

Rolex....exactly agree about the Local Unions.  They were influenced by the International.

By the way....a little side note.  The International Steelworkers Union purchased a Country Club near the Pittsburg area.  It is absolutely gorgeous.  Beautiful Golf course with all amenities.  The local members can reserve rooms there for a length of time and enjoy the Golf and luxury.

Gee......what about the local members that don't play Golf?  This is the most blatant act of self service I've seen.  The Steel Workers who lost their jobs can't reserve rooms there now or get a tee time.  They are no longer dues paying members.  The International got what it wanted.....the local members got something also.........they were sacrificial lambs.  This is a true story!


Fore!!

[Sled]

It is the Fault of Corporate America that Unions exist at all.

[Hajo]

Sled....no argument with that at all.

Now we have two greedy sides instead of one.

for both their sakes.....some middle ground will have to be found.

If not Manufacturing in the US will become non existant and depend on foreign made goods.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Hajo
for both their sakes.....some middle ground will have to be found.

 

Now what people are more likely to understand that a middle ground will have to be found?

1. The ones that think management does what is right and that unions have no place in the system

2. The ones that think the union is always right and that management has no conscience, only greed

3. The ones that think managment are a bunch of greedy foxxers who will screw you at the drop of a trouser and that union leaders are a bunch of greedy foxxers that will screw you at the drop of a trouser


I'm going with number 3. Help us Obi-Wanthey'reallgreedysoxsuckers! You're our only hope!

[Sixpence]

Why not arbitration? Company opens their books and presents their case, union presents their case, arbitrator(s) rules and both sides are bound by the ruling.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by Sixpence
Why not arbitration? Company opens their books and presents their case, union presents their case, arbitrator(s) rules and both sides are bound by the ruling.

They already have binding arbitration provided by the NLRB. Unfortunately the Labor Board is stacked with Bush appointees so now, more than ever, it's tougher to get a favorable decision if you're representing Labor.

[Airhead]

Originally posted by 6GunUSMC

What's ironic here is that the first thing that happens at every Union meeting I've ever been to is the Pledge of Allegence.