Author Topic: 4 x hispano spitfire? (Read 1934 times)

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 14, 2005, 12:07:02 PM »

No, there were a decent amount of 2 GUN La7's built.

The problem is that there were not many at all 3 gun La7's built. But yet again, the 3 gun La7 isn't perked, but it's picked on almost every occasion over the 2 gun La7.

Pongo · « **Reply #31 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:11:35 PM »

"Hold the phone. What 4 hispano P51B are we referring to, since there wasn't one?
"

see what you have learned? Maybe you didnt know everything after all.
I assure you that you dont know HTs and Pyros every thought either.

Adding aircraft is at the heart of the marketing and success of this game. Being able to add very rare and capable aircraft is at the heart of the Perk system. There are pony pilots that would pay 1000 perks to fly that pony.
There are 190 pilots that would pay 500 perks to fly the 190D13.
Same for the spit v.

I dont think its very appropriate for someone who evidently doenst even know of the existance of such planes to rule that they have no place in the game. I want the F6F-4 as well.

Are they going to rush out and include these planes in the game next week? Or ever? unlikly, but the plane structure in the game
Its obvios that the game needs a little enhancement to allow the 3 gun la7 to be a perk plane while the 2 gun isnt. It would be a great addition to the game. Once you have that addition there are lots of cool limited run or prototype load outs that could be added. Those huge rockets for the Corsair, 6 20mm load out for the Fw190, maybe the mk103 for the Fw190. The soviets had lots of cool gun load outs. The BK37 on the Stuka would be cool.

So accepting that the 4 hispano Hellcat and Pony are as rare as is possible while still existing. They are interesting aircraft that would be cool to have in the game in some very restrictive way.

Ya I would rather have the Ki44 or the P39 but at some point we have all the main line planes. What then?

Guppy35 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 14, 2005, 03:26:04 PM »

No Pongo, I don't claim to know everything. But if you'd read my first comment correctly I said there were no P51Bs with 4 hispano's used in combat. That did not preclude me knowing that the XP51B existed in that configuration.

But as near as I can tell HTC does want some sort of historical connection used for the game.

If you start allowing one off prototypes, we might as well call this Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe, X-Birds or something similar cause you are going to get screams for every one off variant ever made

Why not give the Jug drivers the XP47H, shown below. There were TWO of them. Twice the production of the 4 cannon XP51B. Or maybe the XP47J That one supposadly hit 493 MPH in level flight. No one will run from that beast then.

The list would be endless, but again, since HTC does seem to place some emphasis on a historical connection, it doesn't make sense to include one off X-birds etc.

Dan

Pongo · « **Reply #33 on:** March 14, 2005, 04:04:45 PM »

I think 99% of people that read your statement would read it like I did. But what ever.

The 50mm(you said 57mm, I assume you were rounding up) me262 saw combat. Included or not?
Same plane, R4Ms?
Same Plane, 2 mk 103, 2 mk 108, 2 mg151/20. Flown by an ace pilot. included or not?

The 57mm on the Mossie saw combat, included or not?

The US happened to be a long way from the front so thier experimental aircraft never saw combat. Are they restricted from the game for that reason?

Whats the rule going to be if you are makeing it.

I just think that the game should be enhanced to allow certain weapons loadouts selected in the hanger to be perked.
The exact planes that would be included doesnt really matter, there are many possibilities once the enhancement is in place.

As to what HT wants? He wanted the Hog C. Thats why we have it. Someone wanted the 3 gun La7. You rail against the decisions made by HT and Pyro but seem sure that they will aggree with you.

Safer just to present info and not speak for others.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 14, 2005, 04:22:21 PM »

Not 'railing' against anything. Trying to point out that there would be a lot of other things that would make sense before anything like an XP51B with 4 cannon in the game.

You mention the P39 or Ki44. I'm all for it. The list of operational combat planes has a ways to go before it's time to look at and one off planes.

This started as a 4 hispano Spit thread. Trust me on this, I love Spits. Their history has been a passion long before computer flight sims.

That being said, if you are going to add Spits, there are others that make far more sense then a 4 cannon Spit Vc with a Vokes filter. At least a Spit Vb or normal Vc with the filter would make sense for all the Malta, North Africa based scenarios that seem to show up. The performance loss it had because of the large filter would make a difference vs the 109s

An LFIXe/XVIe makes a lot more sense. A decent Spitfire VIII as well as it was the main two stage Merlin Spit in the CBI and Pacific

The Spit XII is by far my favorite Spit having spend years researching it. But it's way down the list for me in AH as there are others, like the P39 that should get here first. You mention the Ki44. There are a lot of Japanese birds that should show up first too.

I love 51Bs as well. Most of us old timers who built models as kids did more then our share of the Monogram 1/48th 51B. But if I was asking for a tweak to that bird it would be to add the Malcom hood for the visibility not 4 cannon. It would allow more fun for the skinners for one thing, and it looks better in my opinion then the normal canopy on a 51B.

So if you are asking what my rule would be? It would be to make sure there is the widest variety of historically accurate aircraft available for all the countries. This helps the CT folks, the Scenario folks, the skinners, and those folks in the MA who don't want to fly the most uber rides around.

Save the X-birds and the what-ifs for the 1946 arena should there ever be one. Until then they're off the list.

Dan

Pongo · « **Reply #35 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:02:36 PM »

Well the game is allready developed counter to your rule.
I said if the 4 hispano Spit V was added to the game it would be added in the context of a perk load out. I gave the now established to exist 4 hispano Pony B as a simular and even more extreme example.

You have to get out of the habit of expressing your opinion as if it had more merit then others or more signifigance. Many people have come and gone from this board with a simular attitude and accomplished nothing.
Its a game. If it would be a better game that would make more money for HT with Air to Air guided missles on the Fw 190 then they would be in the game.

All you can speak for is yourself.

You seem to have the bad combination of declaring absolutes and believing you can debate an issue like this and having it matter in the game. It will not matter at all unless you make a case for improving the game.
All we have left is that you are now absolutly sure the PonyB with Hispanos existed, but should not be in the game.

Great.

My question is, would Pony drivers like a beast like that available at a high perk cost in the MA? How much work would it be for HT to have it? How would it enhance the MA game? How would it harm it?

But my point is in response to the thread starter. This is how it might be done in the game.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 14, 2005, 06:13:23 PM »

Umm....how can I be speaking in absolutes when it's not my game?

You asked what my rule would be. I told you.

One of the absolutes from the HTC that came across loudly in the skins forum was that no skin would be accepted that wasn't historical.

Seems fairly clear to me then that history is a big part of HTC's thinking.

You can't have a pink Spit without some historical connection. Turns out there is one, so we have a pink Spit.

Guys asked about doing squad skins for their game squads. No go unless it's historical.

It still comes down to what HTC put's their resources towards doesn't it? Does it make sense to spend that time on a one off XP51 or to look at adding some of the planes that had an actual combat history in WW2?

You seem to think I'm mandating something. I don't have the power to. I'm just adding my argument against something which I thought was my perogrative.

Apparently we'll have to agree to disagree

Dan

lasersailor184 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:25:59 PM »

I think a 4 Hispano 51b will have the same impact if perked as the Tempest does.

If you're going to perk loadouts, I demand the following to be perked options:

12 .303 Hurri MkIIb
3 20mm La7
37mm Il2
37mm Ju87G
57mm B25

And that's all I can recall off the top of my head.

Pongo · « **Reply #38 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:31:17 PM »

Hey, you learned something and I got to see a nice picture of a malta spit on the Wasp.
Its all good.

Pongo · « **Reply #39 on:** March 14, 2005, 09:34:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lasersailor184
I think a 4 Hispano 51b will have the same impact if perked as the Tempest does.

If you're going to perk loadouts, I demand the following to be perked options:

12 .303 Hurri MkIIb
3 20mm La7
37mm Il2
37mm Ju87G
57mm B25

And that's all I can recall off the top of my head.

6 20mm on the FW 190 would be nice. As would the mk 103 30mm.
Those tiny tim rockets for the Hellcat and Corsair.
the 57 mm for the Mossie would be nice. The B25 had a 75 not a 57 IFRC.
Many nice load outs for the KI84 and KI 61. Yaks had a 45mm thats not in the game.

hubsonfire · « **Reply #40 on:** March 15, 2005, 01:30:22 AM »

Speaking of desired perk loadouts, long long ago in a galaxy far far away (Well, Dayton, Ohio to be exact) there was an allied plane, nice drab green, with a monstrous gun slung under the belly for anti-shipping purposes. I don't know what it was, but I want that. Anyone have a clue as to what this plane is. I haven't been to Wright Patterson in ages (prolly close to 18 or 20 years now), but I've never forgotten that plane. The rifling looked to me like the splines on a drive shaft, it was an absolute beast. Put that in, and I'm okay with anything.

Cheers
hub

hogenbor · « **Reply #41 on:** March 15, 2005, 01:59:24 AM »

Aren't you referring to the Mosquito with the 57mm gun?

paulobrien6969 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2005, 08:25:39 AM »

No, there were a decent amount of 2 GUN La7's built.

i show further my lack of knowledge lol

i feel enlightened on a few things now though:)

SpiveyCH · « **Reply #43 on:** June 05, 2005, 03:47:25 PM »

(Mustang IA and P-51) four 20mm Hispano in wings.

The RAF received 620 Mustang I, 150 IA, and 50 II, while the US Army adopted the type with 500 A-36A and 310 P-51A.
*I know there were 150 IA with the cannons, but not sure if the 310 P-51A is the same as the P-51 above.*

I don't have a scanner, but I have a pic of a P-51 (NA-91). It's a nice pic, looking down on the plane. You can see the four cannons. The pic is also in the air, over some mountains.

I have a feeling that there were only about 150 built. From what I have read, they were designed for ground targets.

Ghosth · « **Reply #44 on:** June 05, 2005, 05:14:48 PM »

Just for the record lasersailer not everyone flys the 3 gun la7.

Not that I fly the la7 that much anymore.
I got tired of all the whines ever time I made a kill. But when I do fly it I much prefer the 2 gun version.

But then maybe I'm just stubborn.