Originally posted by Raider179
SG,
See I saw the same quote but it went more of the " I would never want to be like that. No Tubes for me..." Got a link?
Hi Raider, It's all rather a moot point now, but:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43142Actually the testimony as to her wishes fell out the way one would expect, her family and friends maintain she would have wanted to live, his family and friends maintain that she would have wanted to die. There was no incontrovertible proof either way, and obviously one has to weigh the testimony of directly interested parties in the case of hearsay evidence. In fact in most cases, it is usually dismissed and I believe that is wise, regardless of whom it favors.
Felos also said Terri Schiavo told her best friend, brother-in-law and uncle that she would never want to be kept alive in this type of scenario.
George Felos is the director of Florida Right to Die, and has apparently claimed the ability to look into someones eyes and know whether they want to die or not. My guess is that George would "be able to tell" that my wife and I wanted to die if we fell into a coma, despite the fact that we are both on record as saying that suicide and euthanasia are violations of the 6th commandment.
Cindy Shook, Michael Schiavo's ex-girlfriend ('91-'92) testified under oath that Michael had said that he was being robbed of a normal life and regarding whether Terri wanted to die she said he yelled
"How the hell should I know we never spoke about this, my God I was only 25 years old. How the hell should I know? We were young. We never spoke of this."http://www.zimp.org/stuff/06%20-%20CindyShookDepo.htm
Sorry but I totally disagree on the part about who's choice it is. It is the individuals choice when to call it quits. Whether en masse at Jonestown or quietly in one's own house. Why force someone to live that doesn't want to? Give me one good reason.
Only one good reason? Please forgive me if I go ahead and give several:
1) Euthanasia is a bottomless pit, historically once we conclude that someone can be caused to die for "quality of life" or "utility" reasons, there is a gradual transition from "may" to "must." People in these situations have testified to feeling pressure from both doctors and loved ones, to "do the right thing" and move along by simply dying rather than hanging around and using up resources. Inevitably, once the principle is in place, states begin to take matters into their own hands. Doctors are forced to act in one case as "healer" and in another as "executioner" and eventually the state begins to take a very dim view of allowing the "useless eaters" to hang around regardless of what they want. Parents, for instance, are initially told that the right thing to do with their severely handicapped newborn is to "allow them to die" rather than going through countless costly, painful, and quite possibly ineffective surgeries. Eventually in state managed medical systems the cost to benefit ratio is simply judged to be too high (which is currently the developing situation in the Netherlands) and parents are simply told, we are not going to do this surgery. And their children (or aged parents) are moved to DNF status.
2) Aside from the fact that the Bible teaches that lives have an
inherent rather than a merely
instrumental value, man simply does not
know that the life he condemns as "worthless" will never amount to anything. One of the fellows I went to seminary with, Paul Sweeny, [ Paul is spoken of in this
Time Magazine Article ] was born with severe birth defects and his parents were advised by doctors to allow them to put a "Do Not Feed" sign on his incubator and wheel him into a corner. C. Everet Koop intervened and did most of his 33 surgeries free of charge. Today, Paul who is still visibly deformed, has finished college and graduated seminary, I don't know for certain but he has probably gone on to a ministry call somewhere.
3) The Bard, in Hamlet sums up the two greatest compelling reasons for not engaging in Euthanasia or suicide no matter how much we may want to:
A)
"O, that this too too solid flesh would melt Thaw and resolve itself into a dew! Or that the Everlasting had not fix'd His canon 'gainst self-slaughter!" Shakespeare is correct, the bible unequivocally condemns suicide, stating that we are his creatures, and that he alone has the right to end the lives he gifts us with.
B)
"To be, or not to be: that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, Or to take arms against a sea of troubles, And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep; no more; and by a sleep to say we end The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks That flesh is heir to, 'tis a consummation Devoutly to be wish'd. To die, to sleep; To sleep: perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; For in that sleep of death what dreams may come
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, Must give us pause: there's the respect That makes calamity of so long life; For who would bear the whips and scorns of time, The oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely, The pangs of despised love, the law's delay, The insolence of office and the spurns That patient merit of the unworthy takes, When he himself might his quietus make With a bare bodkin? who would fardels bear, To grunt and sweat under a weary life, But that the dread of something after death, The undiscover'd country from whose bourn No traveller returns, puzzles the will And makes us rather bear those ills we have Than fly to others that we know not of? Thus conscience does make cowards of us all;"The idea that drives most Suicides on is that by dying there will be an end to pain, suffering, their current woes, in a word that after life there is nothing. For most right-to-die advocates death is the constant, and life the momentary blip, there is nothing that follows in its train. The existentialist believes that existence precedes essence, and once life is ended, essence is gone. But the Christian knows as Hamlet summed up, that death doesn't end existence, that humans are both soul and body, and that just as there is a heaven for the forgiven there is a real hell for the reprobate, and thus he hesitates to hurry on knowing that there will be an eternal accounting.
btw I know we see opposites of most issues but just wanted to tell you I think you are wise and offer very good points with no animosity ever detected in your posts.
Thank you Raider. I do sincerely appreciate the fact that you read and think through points and respond rather than firing off knee jerk ad hominems, or simply going with your gut.
Incidentally, and I really mean this, if you do ever detect animus, vitriol, or an unwarranted personal attack, in my posts please confront me on it. I am called to live according to the Golden Rule and observing the command to "Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men." As a sinner, I can and I do fail in this respect, but I hope when I am confronted with that, that I will repent and apologize.
- SEAGOON
