Chicken Little

[DipStick]

LOL. Cobra you are such a putz I'm not even going to reply to your usual drivel. Knew you would show up here though. You are so predictable.

[Cobra412]

Yep and your still a hypcrite so I guess we are even. Ribbing someone because they prefer something one way and then turning around saying if people didn't fly your way you'd quit.

Thanks for the lesson though "Doc". When your friends write that book let me know I'd like to purchase a copy.

[DipStick]

Like I said...

[Cobra412]

Thought you weren't going to reply? Or are you being two-faced again? Saying one thing then doing another?

[Howitzer]

I don't know... I just really think that this game is online quake.  I think there is a compromise between realism and gameplay, and I tend to like it.  They make the planes fly pretty realistic, the terrain somewhat is, but to get enjoyment I want to reup when I die and have back at it.  Realistically, St. Peter would be helping me remove the hispano lead from my prettythang to make heaven a better experience.  

Noone wants to wait to reup.  Only game I can think of that makes you wait to respawn is counterstrike, and that has a 5 min. timelimit, or you have to wait till your team dies.  I just don't think that would fly here.

Nothing against any of you posting here, thats just the way I see it, I'm with Nath and Dipstick on this one, I love the furballs.  =)

[Kweassa]

I've always viewed this as a typical 'overgrown' problem Mako.

 Back in the old days, everything was smaller and less complicated. People didn't really contend for captures and resets. Many of the MA people knew each other well, even personally, and were close friends. Less people, less objectives, less different tastes.. etc etc..  Now, the MA is bustling. Many new people are here, and these people play the game to win. The collective objective of the old vets was to have fun, but the objective of the relative new players is to win the game.

 Like humble said, everything resembles 'real War' more closely now. People are fiercely competitive, even antagonistic, between countries. We've got our own set of 'nationalism' in the MA, between the Rooks, Knits, and Bish. The collective effort towards 'Total War' is viewed as the most desirable way to win the game(as it would be in real life). Don't even give them a chance to up - destroy them while they are on the ground. Concentration of forces is better than spreading apart, and the invincible 'horde' will win the day.

 However, while these aspects resemble the real war, other aspects do not. The basic structure of the MA remains unchanged for a very long time now. In the real war, people didn't have such a free choice as to fly whenever they want, whatever they want, and do whatever they want. This kind of freedom is no doubt important, but the problem is that it also includes the "freedom to destroy the gaming experience totally".

 Yep, freedom to destroy the gaming experience totally. Don't even give them a chance to up. Since people hate losing, or fierce battles, all of the great 'hordes' on the map avoid each other. Each horde avoids the other horde, and goes hitting near-empty/undefended areas of the map. What we get is a huge AND localized "milkrun" problem all over the map.

 A large enemy force approaches an area. Some people scramble and call for assitance, but are ignored. Not surprising - meeting huge force with a huge force of our own is often risky and not very profittable.

 The resulting 'fuball' could be fun, but it's always more fun to be in a "winning furball", where you would meet enemy planes and eventually shoot all of them down with relative ease thanks to your numbers, rather than a "continuous furball"[/u] or a "losing furball"[/u] where you would actually have to work your prettythang off to get real kills.

 ...
 
 So, there's a lot of people in the 3 countries, but none of them actually meet to fight. Most of the "fights" are against empty bases and town buildings. The horde avoids the horde.

 And as long as people are "free" to do whatever they want, they will always take the easier path. They will never challenge a huge force with their own force.

 Because, they are free to do so, unlike in real life, where some military force is always required to maintain the lines. People weren't free to just abandon their posts and form huge hordes to go for easy kills.

 That's what I call "the freedom to destroy the game."

 Everybody is free to do as they choose. So they choose to find an easy fight, or not fight at all.

 .......

 
 This is not about the single individual, as some vets argue. It's about the system. The MA is the same. No restrictions, minimal structuring, and everybody is free to do what they want.

 In the old days, everybody liked fighting, so they would voluntarily do things that would make the game more fun. Nowadays, everybody likes winning, so they will do whatever they can do to win more fields, even if it means losing all of the fields at the opposite front by totally abandoning them to the enemy horde, who thinks the same way.


 AH has outgrown its old strategic/tactical structuring. People need to be given at least some kind of basic strategical/tactical structuring and limitations that is applied forcibly by the system, to help make it a better game where there are actually fights occuring. It needs a new/improved system to promote fights, divide people so both fronts(for each country) are always more or less "populated", and people can't just run away to find an easier fight.

[Kweassa]

ps)

 And that's why I proposed the "Airforces" system some time ago. Everything resembles real life more and more in the MA. So, naturally, then the basic structuring would also be needed to resemble real life more.

 Each country has two(or three, depending on how the terrain is made) independant Airforces. These airforces are stationed at different parts of the terrain and perform operations independantly. When a certain airforce captures a field, only members of that airforce may use it.

 People are not allowed to arbitrarily abandon their Airforce and go to other spots on the map. They must ask for a 'transfer'(which is actually waiting to see if someone at the other airforce wants to swap places with them).

 As long as overall MA numbers are equal for three countries, there will always be simular numbers of enemies at the opposite side of the front. You are not allowed to form a huge horde by abandoning your own Airforce where you are stationed at.

 Whether or not the two independant Airforces in the same country perform collective operations, is entirely upto the players. If one airforce wants to join the other Airforce to form a horde as seen in current MA, they would have to capture territories on their own, so they would be close to the other airforce in distance.

 
 This system may have some faults, but at least it's a start.

 It divides the assets a country has in the MA and structures two firm frontlines, and forces people to work with what they have, to push back the other enemy Airforce who are also stationed at that front and will not move away.

* You will always have an enemy Airforce with its own pilots on the other side of the 'border', who will not leave the area and just let you walk all over the fields for easy milkruns.

* Naturally, A2A suppression would become much harder(since generally equal numbers of pilots of both sides will be stationed at that front ), meaning, more A2A fights.

* Better, more wise use of buffs and GVs are promoted, since if too much people move to GVs or buffs, the air superiority will immediately suffer. The Airforce will be hard pressed to carefully control its relative ratio of GVs, buffs, and fighters.

* If an area which that Airforce is controlling, is strategically nuked, then it will be upto the players there to bring them back up, instead of just go away to different areas and find easy fights.

 Other supplementary systems, such as the "HQ"(server) deciding to change to ratio of total pilots between two Airforces, would be needed.. so when a certain front, despite the simular numbers of friend and foe, is losing, it would make up more openings for the pilots so they can transfer to the losing front and help even it out.

[Murdr]

1.  Something to remember about this online gaming niche is that players have a shelf life.  It even affects recurring players.  Its not always about gameplay.

2.  Players have a life cycle.  Ive always liked this model:

[Class 1] fluff'n Dweebs:

These "pilots" have no idea how to fly and their first kill is probably one of their teamates. Their first contact with other pilots looks something along the lines of ''''''///@%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%SFA@#%%!@!!. They never stop getting vulched, other players from the other classes always like to see these guys log on. If they dont get some training or help soon they usually lose interest or get pissed off and leave the game alltogether.


[Class 2] Plain old Dweebs:

They have figured out how to get a kill and usually do one of two things; 1. They become a buff "artist" and usually join people as a gunner or decide to milkrun ungaurded bases; 2. They become a poser or a follower and hang around with some of the better pilots picking off the wounded. They usually try to start a squad and then ask everyone they see in HQ to join whether they know them or not.


[Class 3] Vulch/Alt/Gang Dweebs:

These pilots have learned that the easiest way to get a kill is to always have the advantage. To repay their old "buddies" they like to setup the enemy and call it roping. The only real rope they know is to go up and stall, zoom the enemy, go up and stall, and continue that process thinking they are kicking their ass. The ***** tulips and runners fall into this class. They think that the more points they have the better they are.  I might also add in AH these are the dedicated HO artists.


3.  Alot of gameplay issues are from too many players being entrenched in Class 3.  The answer isnt changing the game, its changing the player.  Share knowlege, share tips, give training.  Otherwise you end up with a game full of runners because that is the only skill they know.  Here is the rest of the 'model':

[Class 4] Furballers:

When Class 3 has learned that nobody really respects the way they fly, they usually will fall into this class and prove themselves worthy. They will go into a fight no matter what. This class hates BnZers and would rather die in a 5 on 1 then land 8 kills. They have found the true sence of the word "FURBALL". I respect this class just as much as Class 6.


[Class 5] ACE (Alt Monkey):

This class knows how to manage E and how to use ACM to the point where they are just about unkillable. Any time they die they usually come up with an excuse like "the phone rang". They will never admit they ****ed up. Just a little different then Class 3, they are both point mongers except the ACE cares about his ratio too. This is how they can tell if they are any good, if they have more kills then deaths and more then a 1:1 land/kill ratio.


[Class 6] Vet:

These pilots you will usually find dieing for anyone. They can pork, kill, BnZ, rope, just as long as it gets the job done. They dont care if they die in a buff or in a spit, they are there to have fun with their squadies and teamates. These pilots recognize skill and are usually the most benificial to their country. They like to go up against the pilots from classes 3 4 and 5.

4.  Long distance fields dont bolster gameplay.  The front lines, especially on the big maps are a dynamic place.  If you always have to fly 50 miles to a good fight.  Odds are: All your enemies will be gone when you get there; all your friendlies will be gone (which btw is a horde either way); or the fight has completely evaporated to another area sectors away.

[Dead Man Flying]

The good old days didn't happen years ago.  These are the good old days.  I'm consistently amazed at how much fun I can have year after year in Aces High.  It's all about doing things you enjoy, avoiding things you don't, and making the most of the time you spend in the game.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Kweassa]

Your the AH Buddha Levi.

 Your opinion doesn't count.  

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by DipStick
If you fly for a week at under 8k and don't find any "Good Fights" (TM) noone will fault you for leaving. I know I would.

Except for a few buffs, I can't recall any of my kills this tour being above 8k.  Don't think you know how I'm flying because I try to offer an alternative to having hordes of the un-dead baby seals throughout the MA.  Your next tactic will probably be to check my stats.  Don't bother, the fact that my k/hr is low does not mean I'm an alt-monkey.  I fly non-primetime, there's rarely more than 100 online when I am and that number gets lost in the large maps we have now.  I don't fly timid and I mix it up on the deck, even though I fly primarily E fighters.  I know of what I speak.

To make it clear to all:

I'm pro dogfighting.
I'm pro furballs.

I'm against insta respawn.
I'm against having an enemy field within sight of a friendly one.

Maybe I won't be satisfied until TOD.  Who knows, at least I try to offer solutions to what I perceive as a problem.  I want to have skilled opponents to fight, not a never ending procession of the living un-dead to blow away with my BFG.  I want to play a game that has at least a measure of reality, a game that has consequences for losing as well as winning.  Doesn't need to be severe, just enough to encourage development.

As Kweassa noted, the community is now too large to be self regulating, there needs to be some checks and balances in the gameplay to force the baby seals to mature for they will not do it alone.

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
The good old days didn't happen years ago.  These are the good old days.  I'm consistently amazed at how much fun I can have year after year in Aces High.  It's all about doing things you enjoy, avoiding things you don't, and making the most of the time you spend in the game.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Too true Lev.

Unfortunately not everyone gets enjoyment out of the same things and that's what gets borne out by these threads, time after time.  My problem is that the current MA setup does not cater to my brand of enjoyment as much as it used to.  No real biggy, I'd like that to change but it probably won't.  Either I'll adapt, I'll leave, or I'll convert everyone to my way of thinking...  

[iKo]

I 2nd that Murdr

[Howitzer]

Try my challenge for some fun =)

First one to land 5 kills (in a single run) in all aircraft except those designated a purely bombers wins.  No GV kills count, and unlimited rearms are allowed.

The challenge begins April 1st with the new tour, hope you guys try it... May add some fun to your night.

=)

[B17Skull12]

pop into this forum once and the same old.

ok lets see a few words to point out obvious problems.
interation channel (IE:200), opposing idealogies, and computer hardware.

It is mainly between those three.  All but 1 can't be resolved. (200)

that is just my opinion from my year or 2 of play.