"Hanoi Jane" apologizing for vietnam trip

[lazs2]

skywolf... read the book.  It is not a quick read but if you, like me, grew up listening to the news of the war and avoiding being in westmoorland and the bright boys in politics meatgrinder... It will be a breath of fresh air.

Even John Paul Vann felt that the war was won by '72.  It took a monstrous effort to turn it into a loss.

lazs

[Curval]

Originally posted by Lye-El
Curval, I did not make the connection that you had referenced your comment to. In retrospect, I was out of line.

You weren't out of line....in order to know all that stuff you would have had to be a very regular follower of this O'Club AND Check6.  If I was reading the thread without this knowledge I might have reacted the same as you.  

Gto/Nuke

My wife has been sick with a bad cold all weekend and my oldest son had an astmah attack again on Sunday morning at 1.00am, followed by another during the day on Sunday.

Stress levels were high this weekend and my wife's list of priorities didn't even have responding to this post on it.

I'll bug her about it later...when she is less stressed.

[GtoRA2]

Thanks Curv, whenever she has time is cool with me.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by SkyWolf
That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that.
Woof

You have been watching too much of the traditional media.  They were always the ones talking about our "failures" and minimizing our successes.  Going along with the government line doesn't make for good copy, don't you know?

The fact is that the Viet Cong were almost completely eliminated as a viable force in South Vietnam by 1970.  The North changed tactics, and infiltrated regular forces into the south, forces we destroyed in masses.  The South Vietnamese troops took over most field work by 1972, as we pulled forces out.  And they were successful in defending their own country.

The 1975 back-stabbing we pulled was incredibly dishonorable, in my opinion.  We refused to help our allies, and violated our treaty with them.

[Toad]

Originally posted by SkyWolf
You are correct in the fact that I've never read anything on the war. Woof

May I suggest A Better War: The Unexamined Victories and Final Tragedy of America's Last Years in Vietnam by Lewis Sorley. Available on Amazon.

I believe it will significantly change your view.

Using a host of oral interviews, 455 tape recordings made in Vietnam during the years 1968-1972 and numerous other sources, military historian Sorley has produced a first-rate challenge to the conventional wisdom about American military performance in Vietnam.

Essentially, this is a close examination of the years during which General Creighton Abrams was in command, having succeeded William Westmoreland. Sorley contends that Abrams completely transformed the war effort and in the process won the war on the battlefield.

The North Vietnamese 1968 Tet offensive was bloodily repulsed, he explains, as was a similar offensive in 1969. Together, the 1970 American incursion into Cambodia and a 1971 Laotian operation succeeded in reducing enemy combat effectiveness.

Renewed American bombing of the North and Abrams's use of air power to assist ground operations further reduced Hanoi's ability to wage war. Sorley argues that the combination of anti-war protests in America and a complete misunderstanding of the actual combat situation by the diplomats negotiating the 1973 Paris accords wasted American military victories.

In spite of drug use and other problems, Sorley maintains, the army in Vietnam performed capably and efficiently, but in vain, for South Vietnam was sold out by the 1973 cease-fire, America's pullout and the failure of Congress to provide further military assistance to the South.

[DamnedRen]

Originally posted by midnight Target
McCain has forgiven, I think you all can take a lesson from him.

Not necessarily. McCain is a politician. What he says may not be what he thinks. It may what he wants his constituents to think of him.

IMHO she was and is a traitor to the USA. Many people in the US argued against the war but did not give aid to our enemy's. That's the difference.

Who was it who said, "do not forget the past, lest ye are doomed to repeat it"?

Eventually she too will pass into history. Hopefully everyone will remember her for the traitor she was.

Ren

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by SkyWolf
It's interesting to think that we won it. That's the first time I've ever heard anyone say that.  

By 1972 or so, with the popular opinion of the American public as close to unanimous as ever possible favoring our withdrawal...the only thing close to a win was to force the north to come to a negotiated peace during the Paris accords.   All attempt at getting them to negotitate had been failing for many years before we bombed them and their supply lines into near oblivion. Had we done that in 1964 things MIGHT have been different.

[GreenCloud]

oops..not Hackworth,,
but Col Hunt,

ya..traitorous maggot..\

she did turn over notes from pow's

[Maverick]

Originally posted by GreenCloud
oops..not Hackworth,,
but Col Hunt,

ya..traitorous maggot..\

she did turn over notes from pow's

What is your proof. Only incident I have read about was false.