Author Topic: Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen  (Read 6497 times)

Offline Elfie

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Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen
« Reply #315 on: April 08, 2005, 11:37:44 AM »
Well Culero, get in the FREAKING MORON BIN! :D

You still havent backed up anything you have said with any kind of research. Everything you have said is just your opinion.

I do agree that employers are part of the problem. The much bigger problem lies south of our border, the Mexican economy just plain sucks. That is what is driving people to try to find a better life. That is what makes people brave the desert to get here.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #316 on: April 08, 2005, 11:59:17 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
You'd also find out they'd eagerly pay their share of taxes, invest their earnings in real property here, and become involved in our communities in other positive ways if given the chance to do so. They aren't here to send money back to Mexico, they see things are better here and would eagerly embrace legal residence or US citizenship if they could.
 


Really? So why don't they try to become legal citizens the same way all legal imigrants have done?

You're saying they are not given a chance to become legal citizens? What's stopping them?

You see them as victims, nothing more than victims.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 12:21:03 PM by NUKE »

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #317 on: April 08, 2005, 12:11:43 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Really? So why don't they try to become legal citizens the same way all legal imigrants have done?

You're saying they are not give a chance to become legal citizens? What's stopping them?

You see them as victims, nothing more that victims.


Many of the illegals have no plans to become citizens. One of the links I posted talks about that.

Illegals arent victims, they are criminals nothing more.


*edit* Heck, I am surprised Nuke hasnt been relegated to the Moron Bin along with Bustr and I. :D
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In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #318 on: April 08, 2005, 12:49:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
One of the reasons that I want to channel immigration into legal immigration as opposed to illegal immigration (by shutting off illegal job sources) is because most Mexican immigrants, given the chance to, will enthusiastically comply with legal requirements to become US citizens....including the portion of the naturalization requirements that specify basic English literacy.

And, yes, I do know for a fact what the hell I'm saying there.

culero


Wow. You are saying that Mexican immigrants are not given a chance to legally immigrate into the US? Just to be clear, that is what you've said. Correct?

How would you channel illegal immigration into legal immigration? If we punished all employers who hired illgals ( and we should) and got rid of that source of income for illegals, how would that make legal immigration any different than it is now? What would be the difference?

It would be interesting to see President Fox/Mexico's reaction if the US announced that we were going to stop all US employers from hiring illegals and enforce that. What would you guess the Mexican reaction would be? They'd call that racism and descrimination against migrant workers is my guess.

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #319 on: April 08, 2005, 01:18:45 PM »
Nuke, you might as well climb into the Moron Bin with the rest of us, you know you are gonna get sent here anyways. :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline culero

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Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen
« Reply #320 on: April 08, 2005, 08:22:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
snip
Still, the fact is that illegal immigrants are breaking the law and need to be deported as they are found. I don't see what's wrong with that approach.


What's wrong with it is that it doesn't work. Guess what? That's already the law, it has been being done and continues to be.

You and others like you who insist we can and should ramp up those efforts are ignoring those facts, and how much money is spent doing it - without effect.

You also ignore that its virtually impossible to do so more thoroughly without practically suspending the Bill of Rights. Think. Illegal immigrants look like...people. Yanno, like citizens do? You want a society (like Nazi Germany, etc) where "Papers, please" is common practice?

Wait, check that, you probably do. Well, screw that.

Your obvious bias is blinding you to what everyone arguing against you is trying to get you to see - we ALL want to solve this problem, and abate the flood of illegal immigrants.

We're trying to get you to see that shutting off the bait that draws them here is simply the most cost effective and practical approach. Do that, and then doing what you're advocating will become largely unneccessary.

culero
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Offline culero

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« Reply #321 on: April 08, 2005, 08:23:17 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Wow. You are saying that Mexican immigrants are not given a chance to legally immigrate into the US? Just to be clear, that is what you've said. Correct?
snip


Elfie's right on this - you obviously are a moron (if you read what I wrote and came away with that).

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline culero

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« Reply #322 on: April 08, 2005, 08:29:55 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
snip
Illegals arent victims, they are criminals nothing more.


They are often both. Many employers exploit the fact they don't dare become visible to the law and thus can't complain of mistreatment.

However, you continue to miss the point. Nobody is saying we should accept illegal immigration. What's really at issue here is the approach to solving the problem. What's most likely to be effective, what's the lowest cost approach (both in terms of $$$ and potential for civil rights abuse), what's the right thing to do (clean up OUR act).

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #323 on: April 08, 2005, 08:37:26 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
Elfie's right on this - you obviously are a moron (if you read what I wrote and came away with that).

culero


You said that illegal immigrants would love to become legal residents if given the chance. What's stopping them from trying to become legal citizens like all the other legal immigrants have done?

What did you mean by "if given the chance?"

And you are calling me a moron?

And you are wrong about enforcing our laws and deporting illegals as they are found. There is almost no effort to identify them once they are here. Next to nothing is done to weed them out and send them home.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 08:40:45 PM by NUKE »

Offline Elfie

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« Reply #324 on: April 08, 2005, 10:19:41 PM »
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We're trying to get you to see that shutting off the bait that draws them here is simply the most cost effective and practical approach.


The *bait* as you put it is the same thing that has drawn immigrants here since the lost colony of Roanoke....the promise of a better life. Whether it means packing up the whole family and moving here, or just crossing the border illegally in the hope that they can land a job, it's still the promise of a better life that draws them here.

Mexican's wouldnt be crossing the border illegally in the thousands if the Mexican economy was more robust. The extreme poverty levels in Mexico is what is driving this flood of illegal immigrants, and frankly there is little we can do about their economy.

Quote
They are often both. Many employers exploit the fact they don't dare become visible to the law and thus can't complain of mistreatment.


Frankly, I could care less what happens to any criminal. Once someone crosses our border illegally they become a criminal.

 
Quote
However, you continue to miss the point. Nobody is saying we should accept illegal immigration. What's really at issue here is the approach to solving the problem. What's most likely to be effective, what's the lowest cost approach (both in terms of $$$ and potential for civil rights abuse), what's the right thing to do (clean up OUR act).


I'm not missing any point. We just disagree on the solution. Cleaning up our act would also include far better security on our borders.

An article that details the problems with your solution:

http://www.dailyhome.com/news/2005/as-xgr-0320-asieckmann-5c19s5029.htm

Very little is currently being done to catch employers who hire illegals or to catch the illegals themselves. I got 157 hits when I googled for *efforts to catch illegal aliens*, compared to 1.5 million+ hits on what they cost our economy. Here's what one Arizona lawmaker is proposing.

http://www.americanpatrol.com/05-FEATURES/050125-PEARCE-LOU-DOBBS/0500124-Pearce-Dobbs-Xscri.html

Closing our border with Mexico (and Canada for that matter) will go along way towards stopping the possiblily of terrorists coming in from either of those 2 countries. Closing the border with Mexico has the additional benefit of stopping the flood of illegal immigrants.

You still have not posted any resources to back your claims Culero, so guess what? You get to climb in the moron bin with myself, nuke, bustr and Silat who is otw with a couch and a fully stocked refridgerator! :D Btw Nuke, can you bring a TV? I'll bring a computer, and Bustr can bring a BBQ :D


*edit* fixed a quote
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 10:23:13 PM by Elfie »
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Elfie

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Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen
« Reply #325 on: April 08, 2005, 10:24:58 PM »
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And you are calling me a moron?


Of course he is, you disagree with him :) Now GET IN THE MORON BIN!!  :D
Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline 6GunUSMC

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Mexican Military on Standby in Response to Minutemen
« Reply #326 on: April 09, 2005, 12:39:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by culero
Shades of KristallNacht.

culero


Exactly... radical action on the borders now may help avert something horrible like that!  No-one wants to see it, but it will happen eventually if things continue the way they are going.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #327 on: April 09, 2005, 10:35:09 AM »
yep... shut off the jobs and the benifiets and then concentrate on the hugely reduced flow of illegals and arrest em.


lazs

Offline NUKE

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« Reply #328 on: April 09, 2005, 11:22:04 AM »
Laz, if we shut off the jobs and the benifits to all illegals, that'd be considered racism and descrimination against "migrant" workers.

Mexico wouldn't support that any more than they support the Minute Men.

Offline culero

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« Reply #329 on: April 09, 2005, 12:45:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
You said that illegal immigrants would love to become legal residents if given the chance. What's stopping them from trying to become legal citizens like all the other legal immigrants have done?

What did you mean by "if given the chance?"

And you are calling me a moron?

And you are wrong about enforcing our laws and deporting illegals as they are found. There is almost no effort to identify them once they are here. Next to nothing is done to weed them out and send them home.


What I said - looks like the shoe fits - you obviously have no clue (ride along with some INS guys down here sometime, then peruse their budget and deployment info).

culero
“Before we're done with them, the Japanese language will be spoken only in Hell!” - Adm. William F. "Bull" Halsey