Author Topic: When Are Going To Get The Raptor??? (Read 539 times)

1K3 · « **on:** April 01, 2005, 02:15:56 PM »

When are we going to get the F/A-22? Puny air forces like India can defeat the whole studmuffinle and Falcons in excersises (red flag, u name the rest) with ease with their Su-30MKIs. Even their missile inventory is getting advanced too lol.

I also heard that to be invisible to radar (like totaly invisible) is to use plasma

ASTAC · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2005, 02:48:04 PM »

It's coming....one day

I always thought it was funny it takes 20 years to develop an aircraft...so the technology is obsolete by the time it hits production

Skydancer · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2005, 02:52:56 PM »

Well we got these very very late! So you might be lucky!

Was it worth it? You can't kill a terrorist very easily with it!

Cobra412 · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:10:19 PM »

ASTAC the technology keeps advancing even on the production lines. As new software or hardware comes out they will upgrade the airframes as they see fit.

1K3 Tyndall already has 18 Raptors sitting on its flightline and Langley has atleast 2. You can't just throw a squadron together and say go fly it. The new budget is keeping the Raptor from being sent out in mass quantities. Currently the production line is slowly making them because that is all they are required to make. Once the budget is settled they can start producing more in a shorter time period. They have phase periods currently setup to make x amount of aircraft per year based on the budget that they Air Force is being given.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Raptor was flying during the recent Red Flags. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were actively engaging and probing during the exercise without anyone but the aircrews flying them knowing they were doing it. What an easy way to test it against modern aircraft that generously came to play a war game in your country.

TheDudeDVant · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:10:59 PM »

I hear they are really expensive.. How many will $300billion buy??

Nilsen · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:16:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
I hear they are really expensive.. How many will $300billion buy??

You get the helmet and some ointment.

ASTAC · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:16:52 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Cobra412
ASTAC the technology keeps advancing even on the production lines. As new software or hardware comes out they will upgrade the airframes as they see fit.

1K3 Tyndall already has 18 Raptors sitting on its flightline and Langley has atleast 2. You can't just throw a squadron together and say go fly it. The new budget is keeping the Raptor from being sent out in mass quantities. Currently the production line is slowly making them because that is all they are required to make. Once the budget is settled they can start producing more in a shorter time period. They have phase periods currently setup to make x amount of aircraft per year based on the budget that they Air Force is being given.

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if Raptor was flying during the recent Red Flags. It also wouldn't surprise me if they were actively engaging and probing during the exercise without anyone but the aircrews flying them knowing they were doing it. What an easy way to test it against modern aircraft that generously came to play a war game in your country.

Still it takes way too long to get aircraft production rolling...I can remember watching the first flight of the V-22 back in the latee 80's or was it around 90? I can't remember..still not in production...

Our Navy is a great example of stuff taking too long to get out..our top of the line DDG-51 class destroyers' so called state of the art combat systems could be outpaced by an overtasked 286 computer..and thats the latest Flight IIA model on the building ways now.

Aircraft development is not very different in the processes..so I can't image that in the 15-20 years it takes to go into production that they will have advanced too far.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:31:37 PM »

The V-22 is a bad example. That thing is a flying deathtrap. Take a look at the F-16. Prototype #1 flew in 12/1973, and production deliveries were made in 8/1974.

Over 30 years later and its avionics package is still a top notch package. Of course, it looks nothing like it did in 1974 due to the enormous number of upgrades to the software and hardware.

Nilsen · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:41:36 PM »

Things are alot more complex to make now with all the sophisticated systems that has to work together. Back when the F-16 was designed it was also a cold war going on that I would guess ment that the preassure was on to get stuff ready alot quicker than now, and without alot of the byrocratic, budget stuff and certifications that are needed now. IF there ever was a big war (hot/cold) again were the 2 sides did not destroy eachother quickly I belive things would get from drawingboard (or CAD) to finished product ALOT faster.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2005, 03:48:40 PM »

That "flying deathtrap" flies constantly over the flightline I work on a daily basis and has done so for the past 3 years.

The Raptor didn't have avionics packages installed back in the early 90s when the first started flying. When the first avionics did get installed it was basic needs for the aircrews.

The design of the Raptors new avionics makes it extremely flexible. It's not the old typical package where you have to change a whole box. They do card swaps for repairs and upgrades not whole boxes like the F-15 and F-16.

I won't lie it has taken awhile for them to get this project completed.

I also work in the flight test world for the F-15 so I'm pretty sure I understand how it all works.

FUNKED1 · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:02:54 PM »

The delays are almost entirely due to budget cuts.

boxboy28 · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:25:17 PM »

One thing about the F22 i just dont understand is the thrust vectoring. You have the Russian SU's with 2 axis (x,y)vectoring, and we make a bird that that only has X!

Seems like some one missed something.

Box.

Skuzzy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2005, 04:36:42 PM »

Didn't mean to strike a nerve there Cobra, but that thing does have a pretty shoddy record, considering the actual numbers deployed.

Cobra412 · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2005, 05:07:59 PM »

Skuzzy not at all. I felt the same way from reading the reports about it. Then for the past 3 years I've seen the thing flying constantly over our 15 ramp.

I know the first time I saw it I said the same thing you did. I even wondered why the hell they'd be flying it over populated areas during their testing. They'd do transition testing right over base. Looked pretty scary at first.

Boxboy the thrust vectoring coupled with the flight controls and aerodynamics of the Raptor gives it a very high rate of pitch and yawing capabilities. That was one of the biggest downfalls of the YF-23 was it's lack of yawing capabilities. It just couldn't match the Raptor in that department. It was primarily due to the way the combined horizontal stabs/rudder assembly was designed.

From what I've heard from our aircrews and F-16 aircrews flying against the Raptor it's more than capable of maneuvering with the system it has in place. An F-16 aircrew was coming around on a Raptor in mock engagement where the Raptor started off defensive. In the turn the Raptor was able to fly an out of plane maneuver and reverse quickly to get a shot before the 16 crew knew what hit them. Typically in this type of an engagement the F-16 has a huge advantage but not this time. They also had engagements where the Raptor was tracking the crews with out them even knowing it. The Raptor was able to eliminate a flight of 4 F-15s and during the whole thing the 15 crews didn't have a clue where the Raptor was.

Gunslinger · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2005, 06:59:25 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Skuzzy
Didn't mean to strike a nerve there Cobra, but that thing does have a pretty shoddy record, considering the actual numbers deployed.

Skuzzy,

In 1999 (I think) I was taking part in a Mass casualty evacuation drill down at Yuma MCAS. We deployed to goodyear air field near phoenix/tuscon and were to be the casualties while helos, c-130s and the brand new V-22 were to swoop in and deliver us back to Yuma.

This was the time when the 22 went down with IIRC 16 Marines aboard.

A couple months later after they were done being grounded a buddy of mine out at camp lejune was supposed to perform "fast rope" drills from them. Normally these arnt a problem being done from a CH-46 or A CH53. But this day they were testing the V-22. OVer half the platoon refused orders to get aboard because they had 6 months or less left in the Corps.

I pray that they have the bugs worked out of this air craft before they field it fleet wide.