Author Topic: Great News! (Read 2161 times)

indy007 · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2005, 09:10:29 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by storch
how efficient is hydrogen/cell technology compared to gasoline engines. IIRC the gasoline engine is 20% mechanically efficient. I was under the impression the hydrogen/cell technology has the potential of achieving 30-40% but currently it is not even as efficient as the gasoline engine. am I wrong here?

Nope, not wrong. They're running Hydrogen powered RX-8s as prototypes. Appearently the rotory engine works well with it... but it still only makes 1/2 the power, and 1/2 the mpg of the gasoline powered versions.

As for the explosions... I'm iffy on that. I'm sure we'll overcome the problems... but there's so much KE there, if something does go wrong... it's going to be really, really bad. A typical co2 cylinder has about 800psi worth of pressure assuming normal temperatures. Knock the valve off, and they'll fly a few hundred yards before burying themselves in concrete. People can't be trusted to keep their tires inflated... do you really trust them doing 90, weaving in & out of traffic, with a 6000psi bomb in their trunk?

I'm just waiting on Toyota's new hybrid Highlander SUV. Due out around the end of the year, 60mpg, and enough room to keep doing what I want.

Rolex · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2005, 09:35:22 AM »

I've read that one idea is to use a chip controlled matrix of acceleration sensors (much more sophisticated than airbag sensors now) that would activate a dampened release through multiple valves.

Re efficiencies: Something is gnawing at me thinking that Toyota, in particular since they have a licensing agreement with Ballard, have something up their sleeve they're not telling. It's called chimitsu here. The stakes in this are very high and they wouldn't have built this experimental hydrogen fueling station like they did.

I'm telling you this thing looks like a regular gas station - a complete gas station, not some mockup or prototype rigged together in the back of a factory testing area. This thing is sitting right at an intersection and looks like its just itching to open the gates.

indy007 · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2005, 09:42:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Rolex
I've read that one idea is to use a chip controlled matrix of acceleration sensors (much more sophisticated than airbag sensors now) that would activate a dampened release through multiple valves.

That still wouldn't deal with a ruptured tank. When the sidewall goes... there's no valve to stop it. You could never dump enough in time to prevent decompression of the tank. A double-walled solution might work, but then it would go from expensive to insanely expensive.

Quote

Re efficiencies: Something is gnawing at me thinking that Toyota, in particular since they have a licensing agreement with Ballard, have something up their sleeve they're not telling. It's called chimitsu here. The stakes in this are very high and they wouldn't have built this experimental hydrogen fueling station like they did.

I dunno about that, but they've announced there will be a hybrid version of every car in their lineup by 2010.

Quote

I'm telling you this thing looks like a regular gas station - a complete gas station, not some mockup or prototype rigged together in the back of a factory testing area. This thing is sitting right at an intersection and looks like its just itching to open the gates.

I know several delivery companies that have converted their trucks to LPG. They keep pumps at their depot, and a handful of gas stations here in Houston also have LPG. You just have to know where they're at. There's also been talk by entire cities of switching over public transportation to LPG. Makes sense. When's the last time somebody has seen a bus getting gas at Exxon?

Engine · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2005, 09:56:13 AM »

Isn't it possible to simply extract hydrogen from a water tank through electrolysis as the car drives, and keep the amount of pure hydrogen in the vehicle limited? Sounds like it would be safer to extract the hydrogen as needed, but I'm certainly unfamiliar with the process.

Rolex · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:03:07 AM »

It is a hydrogen fuel filling station.

Gloves · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:19:43 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by oboe

I'm more of the mind of 'where there is a will there's a way'. Perhaps a solution as simple as no-lawsuit clauses in the purchase agreements of hydrogen vehicles would suffice?

The 'no-lawsuit' thing only works for those who sign it. But what happens when a person who agrees to it runs a stop sign and nails someone who didn't sign? Can you say lawsuit?

Glove

101ABN · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:22:33 AM »

time to buy a bike... or maybe lease a horse and buggy from the local amish community.

Skydancer · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:43:15 AM »

Skuzzy with all due respect you sound like someone burying their head in the sand.

Of course you may be right that at present many of these alternatives are not exactly viable. But do we just say "oh dear we can't do it at the moment so lets stop thinking about it or trying to develop it" Of course not as that would result in an end to all innovation and development of a technological nature.

Already Hybrid technology is leading to a reducction in the dependancy on Petrol. In Europe diesel technology is in many cases way ahead of petrol engine technology.

Your argument is rather "Luddite" in nature.

101 i've always said that if you have to use a petrol engine, a motorcycle is the more fuel efficient vehicle for a lone traveller as most commuters and buisiness travwellers are.So yeah go get a bike. ( Its a lot of fun too and you'll make new mates along the way.)

SirLoin · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2005, 10:53:12 AM »

And wait until an instance of "Thermal Runaway" destroys a Ni-Cad car...Battery acid and all.

Then what?

Skuzzy · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:00:31 AM »

If you insist on placing a tag on me for the purposes of this discussion, then call me cynical and/or realistic. I'll never get people who have to do that.

The litigous nature of our society will rear its ugly head upon the first hydrogen related death in this country. The media will be all over it.

I am all for advancements in technology. I am all for alternative energy sources. But, that does not mean diddly in the scheme of things.

I am also for honesty in politics, leaders who place the needs of the people ahead of their own, and responsibility in government. But the reality is, it ain't gonna happen.

JB88 · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:04:38 AM »

SirLoin · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:06:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by JB88

LOl..A pix of ElphenWolf after a full moon

Toad · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:06:41 AM »

Here we go again with the "motorcycle is the more fuel efficient vehicle for a lone traveller " argument.

That might be partially true. It's not true of the larger displacement bikes, but it is true for the "little" bikes.

As far as practical... well, for the overwhelming vast majority of drivers it's ridiculous to even suggest that a bike is a more practical vehicle than a car.

Cars like a diesel Beetle carry four in comfort and have a city/highway rating of 36/42 mpg. And they carry four in comfort even when it is raining. Further, they can carry far more cargo, like luggage, store purchases, etc. than any bike without sidecar ever will.

The big cruisers available now don't get that kind of mileage. They carry two at best and only one of those in any kind of comfort. Cargo? Yah, shure.

Bikes are fun; as recreational vehicles, they are near the top.

They sure as heck are NOT the answer to the transportation requirements of the traveling public.

Skydancer · « **Reply #28 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:08:05 AM »

Aw come on Skuzzy mate you need a severe dose of optimism and hope there. Neccessity is the mother of invention and its getting neccessary to find alternatives. The planet needs it and economicaly we need it.

As for the cost to develop stuff I still live in hiope that some people do see and think long term and are not just full of short term money in my pocket stuff.

Toad my bike big displacement or no costs me a lot less to run than my car!

Cheaper to park ( make that free), better gas milage, cheaper road tax, ins, and quicker journey times so the engine is running less per journey than in my car. When the engine is running I'm moving unlike the car. I'm only going on personal experience here. Also a lot of the stuff I lug around in my car is junk. Travel light its the only way and a bit of rain never hurt you. Perhaps as I'm a City dweller thats why the bike makes more sense.

JB88 · « **Reply #29 on:** April 08, 2005, 11:10:14 AM »

someone recently remarked that the alternative energy buisness is going to be the next dot.com boom.

i hope they are correct.