Author Topic: Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily  (Read 3557 times)

Offline JB88

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« on: April 07, 2005, 08:37:26 PM »
Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily      
New Feature
     
By Jim Yardley and Thom Shanker The New York Times Friday, April 8, 2005
Officials say equation has shifted in event of a Taiwan crisis
 
ZHANJIANG, China When the flagship of the U.S. Navy's 7th Fleet came into view on a recent Monday afternoon, a Chinese naval band onshore quickly began playing as two rows of Chinese sailors snapped into formation and workers hurriedly finished tacking down a red carpet.
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The command ship, the Blue Ridge, answered with music from its own band and raised a Chinese flag below Old Glory.
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But the most apt symbolism in the stagecraft of the ceremonial visit came when the two navies staged a tug-of-war - evoking their emerging competition in East Asia.
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While the American military is consumed with wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, global terrorism, and the threat of nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran, China is presenting a new and strategically different security concern to America in the western Pacific, as well as to Japan and Taiwan, Pentagon and military officials say.
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China, these officials say, has smartly analyzed the strengths and weaknesses of the American military and focused its growing defense spending on weapons systems that could exploit the perceived weaknesses in case the United States ever needs to respond to fighting in Taiwan.
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This rapid military modernization is the major reason President George W. Bush has warned the European Union not to lift its arms embargo against China.
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A decade ago, U.S. military planners dismissed the threat of a Chinese attack against Taiwan as a 160-kilometer infantry swim. Now, the Pentagon believes that China has purchased or built enough amphibious assault ships, submarines, fighter jets and short-range missiles to pose an immediate threat to Taiwan and to any American force that might come to Taiwan's aid.
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Even the most hawkish officials at the Pentagon do not believe China is preparing for an imminent invasion of Taiwan. Nor do analysts believe China is any match for the United States military.
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But as neighboring North Korea is erratically trying to play the nuclear card, China is quietly challenging America's reach in the western Pacific by concentrating strategically on conventional forces.
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"They are building their force to deter and delay our ability to intervene in a Taiwan crisis," said Eric McVadon, a former military attaché at the U.S. Embassy in Beijing. "What they have done is cleverly develop some capabilities that have the prospect of attacking our niche vulnerabilities."
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Japan, America's closest ally in East Asia, and China's rival for regional dominance, is also watching China's buildup. Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi echoed Bush by warning Europe against removing the arms embargo. A think tank affiliated with Japan's Defense Ministry criticized China's increased military spending and warned it was rushing to prepare for possible conflict with Taiwan - an assertion China sharply denied.
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The growing friction between Japan and China, fueled by rising nationalism in both countries, is just one of the political developments exacerbating tensions in East Asia.
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In March, China passed a controversial new "anti-secession" law authorizing a military attack if top leaders believe Taiwan moves too far toward independence - a move that brought hundreds of thousands of people in Taiwan out in protest last month.
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China's most recent military white paper also alarmed U.S. policymakers because it mentioned the United States by name for the first time since 1998. It stated that the American presence in the region "complicated security factors."
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China, meanwhile, blamed the United States and Japan for meddling in a domestic Chinese matter when those two countries recently issued a security statement that listed peace in Taiwan as a "common strategic objective."
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"The potential for a miscalculation or an incident here has actually increased, just based on the rhetoric over the past six months to a year," one U.S. intelligence analyst in Washington said.
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At the welcoming ceremony for the Blue Ridge here at the hometown of China's South Sea Fleet, the American commanding officer, Captain J. Stephen Maynard, and his Chinese counterpart, Senior Captain Wen Rulang, sidestepped questions about the anti-secession law and military tensions.
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Wen, Asked about China's military buildup and how America should view it, praised the U.S. Navy as the most modern in the world.
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"As for China," he said, "our desire is to upgrade China's self-defense capabilities."
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But in China's view, self-defense involves Taiwan, which it regards as a breakaway province and which the United States has, by treaty, suggested it would help defend. In 1996, when China fired missiles in warning over the Taiwan Strait prior to Taiwanese elections, President Bill Clinton responded by sending a battle group to a position near Taiwan. Then, China could do nothing about it. Now, analysts say, it can.
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In fact, U.S. carriers responding to a crisis would now initially have to operate at least 800 kilometers, or 500 miles, from Taiwan, which would reduce the number of jet fighter sorties they could launch and cut their loiter time in international airspace near Taiwan.
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This is because China now has a modernizing fleet of submarines, including new Russian-made nuclear subs that can fire antiship missiles from a submerged position. America would first need to subdue these submarines before moving ships close to Taiwan.
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China launched 13 attack submarines between 2002 and 2004, a period when it also built 23 ships that can ferry armored vehicles and troops across the 160-kilometer-wide strip of water to Taiwan.
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"Their amphibious assault ship building alone equals the entire U.S. navy shipbuilding since 2002," said an intelligence official in Washington. "It definitely represents a significant increase in overall capacity."
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In the worse-case scenario for a Taiwan crisis, any delay in U.S. carriers reaching the island would mean that the United States would initially depend on fighter jets and bombers stationed on Guam and Okinawa, while Chinese forces could use their amphibious ships to traverse the narrow Strait. Some U.S. military analysts believe China could now defeat Taiwan before America could arrive at the scene.
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http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/04/07/news/china.html
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Offline ASTAC

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2005, 09:05:02 PM »
Is it starting to get cold in here...maybe Cold War II?
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Offline EagleEyes

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2005, 10:49:21 PM »
I give it up to 10 yrs or less, before ***** hits the fan.  But i garuntee, that if we do go to war with china, its gonna be like WWII all over again.  Factories will change over to building weapons instead of bread makeers.  There will be a draft. I predict that if we do go to war with china, both sides will loose such a great number of human life, that wwII will look like the invasion of panama.  I pray to God that nothing like this will happen though.  But be sure enough, that i would gladly fight to protect this great country of ours!
 
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Offline Seeker

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2005, 12:00:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by EagleEyes
 But be sure enough, that i would gladly fight to protect this great country of ours!
 
USA!~ USA!~USA!~USA!~USA!


Egle31st



Taiwan?

Taiwan is "this great country of ours"??

Offline FUNKED1

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2005, 12:07:14 AM »
Well ****, I surrender.

Offline Nash

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2005, 12:16:11 AM »
You can't do that, Funked!

I mean, the very fate of the nation has been resting on the shoulders of you and people like yourself!

You have fought hard, Funked.... and good Americans like yourself have toiled the land, done like yer daddy did, and have made incredible sacrifices in the name of freedom french fries.

Please don't throw in the towel.

Offline Yeager

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2005, 01:51:59 AM »
Im not worried about the Chinese.   Chinese people want to live. There will come a day when the Chinese are attacked for the same reason Americans are today.  We will find them tremendous allies someday if we are still around.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Skydancer

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2005, 01:56:14 AM »
"War what is it good for?

Absolutely nothin......"


Apart from online flight sims that is!:D

Offline oboe

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2005, 07:11:52 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Im not worried about the Chinese.   Chinese people want to live. There will come a day when the Chinese are attacked for the same reason Americans are today.  We will find them tremendous allies someday if we are still around.


I think it means absolutely nothing what the Chinese people want.   What can they do about anything?

I view souring relations between the US and China as heartening news - especially at this early stage of Chinese ownership of the US.    I hope relations go positively rancid, and the sooner the better.  Maybe US manufacturers will see some wisdom in retaining some capability within our own borders.

Offline JB88

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2005, 10:58:08 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Im not worried about the Chinese.   Chinese people want to live. There will come a day when the Chinese are attacked for the same reason Americans are today.  We will find them tremendous allies someday if we are still around.


an interesting way of viewing it.  here's to hoping you are correct.

:)
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Offline deSelys

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2005, 11:14:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Im not worried about the Chinese.   Chinese people want to live. There will come a day when the Chinese are attacked for the same reason Americans are today.  We will find them tremendous allies someday if we are still around.



But....but....but Yeager, they are awful nasty commies!!!! Where are you morals, man?
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Offline Toad

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2005, 11:22:31 AM »
I'm with Funky.

My new policy is to surrender, sign a treaty and ask the victors for billions to rebuild my shattered economy whenever I read a scary news report.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Schaden

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2005, 11:32:18 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
Taiwan?

Taiwan is "this great country of ours"??


Now is not the time to get picky!!

Offline Raider179

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2005, 12:31:20 PM »
China will take taiwan back. It is not an if it is a when. There military build-up could be either for this purpose or to try to just scare Taiwan back into the fold. But unfortunately that is one of those bluffs that could end up just destroying the world. Hope whoever is in charge when it happens has their poker face ready.

Offline Toad

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Chinese begin to worry U.S. militarily
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2005, 12:44:13 PM »
Since most of our non-US posters and some of the US posters seem to think that NK and Iran having nukes is either no big deal or a good deal, I think we should just give Taiwan a decent nuclear arsenal.

That way, when push comes to shove, the Taiwanese themselves can make the decision about how badly they don't want to be part of China.

Also, the Chinese can make the decision on how badly they want to bring Taiwan back into the fold.

Problem solved. What's a little nuke tossing between mother country and renegade province anyway?

It's GOOD for everyone to have nukes.... or so I've been told.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!