Author Topic: How do you do it?  (Read 6825 times)

Online Shane

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How do you do it?
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2005, 03:57:16 PM »
Check the ones you know are "good" sticks - aka someone you know is gonna hand you your 6.  Then check out some of the "ranked" ones and try and recall how you see them fly.

You'll be a tad surprised on several levels.
Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
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Offline eagl

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How do you do it?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2005, 04:15:46 PM »
Hmm.

Only the sucky players have to "choose your fights carefully" ;)

Seriously, the key there is "carefully".  If you ever wing with Drex, you'll notice that he "carefully" picks an early war plane, flies to the thickest group of cons, trolls around a few thousand feet below most of them, and then shoots down everyone in sight.  That's how he keeps his K/D over 1-1.  

The last time I ever had a K/D less than 1 was my second or third day playing CK beta .8x, and I'm no more careful picking fights than any other dweeb.  Sure I'm not nearly as talented in the game as Drex, Shane, or half the other addicts here, but I didn't have to play alt-monkey just to survive.  I'll pick a plane I enjoy (currently ki-84), and learn how to do everything in it and then fly around at medium altitude looking for interesting fights.  1v1 isn't too terribly interesting, but I'm not going to run unless I have to.  I'll even take my ki-84 to a merge and try to turn with any other plane, just to find out what kind of player they are.  If they're good enough to kill me, I MIGHT run, but for the most part I'll stick around and either get them or get my butt kicked.  Either way it's fun for me, and either way I'll probably learn something.  That's how I keep my K/D over 1, by finding interesting fights and jumping in.

Now jumping in also needs clarification too, because it means different things.  For Drex, jumping in sometimes means imitating an easy target and then killing anything that gets close.  For me, it means trying to stay alive long enough to beat down my opponent enough in energy so I can saddle up for an easy shot, because my gunnery sucks really badly.  So I usually don't end fights quickly even when I'm winning.  That means that to have much fun, I can't be the only friendly around in a swarm of enemies.  So I need to find fights that are at least somewhat evenly matched so I can take a little time to push a guy around the sky until I can get enough bullets into him, without someone shooting me first.

Another thing that really helps K/D is not fixating on your target.  Anytime you're not actually pulling the trigger, you should be flipping your views around trying to keep track of all the other bandits.  Sure, follow the other guy in the views enough to fly your best fight against him, but you MUST not only check 6 occasionally, but check 3, 9, high-12, straight up, even roll out if necessary to do a belly-check, or you'll get blasted right when you think you're doing ok.  You must fight the highest threat no matter how offensive you are at the time, and if that means giving up an easy kill to defend yourself, then that's what you gotta do.

Another tip is to keep track of your ammo and fuel, and when you start running low on either try to work your way to the edge of the fight closest to your own field.  Try not to run out of ammo when you're only 100 ft up in the middle of the furball or on the wrong side from home.  It makes sense in any furball to grab altitude anytime you're not turning or shooting someone, and if you have the choice then every time you take a little breather, turn towards home and climb for a few seconds before re-engaging.  That way you keep your run away home option alive when you run out of bullets or get really low on gas, and you can dive or climb towards home to get out of the fight.  If you're on the deck very slow when you run out of ammo, you're usually an easy kill for anyone who happens by.

I don't know how many times I've run out of ammo and had to just keep turning with bandits.  There have been times when I've gotten 3 maneuver kills after running out of fuel, because I was stupid and ran out of ammo right in the middle of the furball and couldn't run away.  So I'd have to keep fighting, saddle up behind the bandit so he couldn't shoot me, and try to scare him into running into the ground by getting really close and pointing at him.  Sometimes it works, but having the option to exit the fight instead is a better way to do things in general.
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Offline Schaden

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How do you do it?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 05:22:24 PM »
People play this game for a variety of reasons, some, knowing that they will never be able to experience WW2 fighter combat try to use the game as a simulation of what happened 60 years ago so that in some small way they might have a taste of what it was like for those pilots who had to live through it for real.

My death is not something I give away lightly, I try to kill and survive, I try to use actual tactics from WW2, I probably spend far too much time and money on books about WW2 aircraft and the men that flew them.

If you think the epitome of skill is flopping around the DA at zero feet in a Spit V and all you can do is kill, die, kill, die, kill die ad nauseam fine, not very bright, no sense of history, lacking empathy gamey little bottom feeders....not for me.

Offline Schaden

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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 05:35:32 PM »
and in answer to the question...think about setting up a situation where you are in control, where your enemy or enemies react to you and where you have the advantages  and they do not.

It helps to be able to hit your target at d600 and to be able to set up that snapshot in under 2 seconds, so you need to practice fine control of the plane to get the correct target picture as fast as possible.

If you can get your gunnery into the 10% to 15% range with few assists and more kills it also helps.

Know when to break off and regroup either singly when you find you are losing E or you SA is becoming overwhelmed, constantly communicate with others around you, so you all have better SA.

Fly something with cannons, P51 is a good bird but compared to cannon armed planes it's guns are weak.

To be able to kill and survive you need SA, Gunnery and intellect, ACM comes a long 4th.

Finally try to break the Spit addiction, people fly them only because they are so forgiving and easy to fly in AH, they are no threat and can be attacked or left in the dust at will, bleating frustation about everyone being "scared" - here's a newsflash, we're not scared we just think you not very bright.

Offline Redd

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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 06:55:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schaden
and in answer to the question...think about setting up a situation where you are in control, where your enemy or enemies react to you and where you have the advantages  and they do not.

It helps to be able to hit your target at d600 and to be able to set up that snapshot in under 2 seconds, so you need to practice fine control of the plane to get the correct target picture as fast as possible.

If you can get your gunnery into the 10% to 15% range with few assists and more kills it also helps.

Know when to break off and regroup either singly when you find you are losing E or you SA is becoming overwhelmed, constantly communicate with others around you, so you all have better SA.

Fly something with cannons, P51 is a good bird but compared to cannon armed planes it's guns are weak.

To be able to kill and survive you need SA, Gunnery and intellect, ACM comes a long 4th.

Finally try to break the Spit addiction, people fly them only because they are so forgiving and easy to fly in AH, they are no threat and can be attacked or left in the dust at will, bleating frustation about everyone being "scared" - here's a newsflash, we're not scared we just think you not very bright.



It's a video game , it was designed for people to have fun.  It's not a life or death struggle  ;)

Some people have fun furballing some folks have fun Bnz'ing. Some do both. each to their own.

Some folks even believe that somehow what they are doing is empathizing with and emulating the guys that did it for real with their lives on the line.  How funny is that   ;)
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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2005, 07:02:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Schaden
People play this game for a variety of reasons, some, knowing that they will never be able to experience WW2 fighter combat try to use the game as a simulation of what happened 60 years ago so that in some small way they might have a taste of what it was like for those pilots who had to live through it for real.

My death is not something I give away lightly, I try to kill and survive, I try to use actual tactics from WW2, I probably spend far too much time and money on books about WW2 aircraft and the men that flew them.

If you think the epitome of skill is flopping around the DA at zero feet in a Spit V and all you can do is kill, die, kill, die, kill die ad nauseam fine, not very bright, no sense of history, lacking empathy gamey little bottom feeders....not for me.



LOL I would guess I could go for days on the history having been at WW2 history for almost 40 years, having started building my own library of books on it back in grade school.

I have a great sense of the history.  At the same time, it is nothing more then a game that lets me pretend.  Until death is real and all the elements of the game are real, I'm going to play to have fun.

If I fly in a scenario where I have one life you bet I'll play it safer, but until then it's going to be down and dirty wherever the fight is, cause planes are free as are lives.

BUT!  Don't use history as your justification or claim that my lack of understanding of it is the reason I don't play the GAME the way you do.

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Offline Grits

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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2005, 07:12:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
That wasn't any kind of amazing or special flying


Ive gotta call BS on that statement. :)

When I look at a players score I look at two things, Kills/Sortie, Kills/hour. Kills/Death is not an indicator of anything important if it is paired with a low K/S or K/hour other than that the person is careful (timid).

I dont really keep track of it, but if I dont kill at least 1 (preferably 2) each time I up I consider it a failed sortie. Upping at capped bases and fighting at the bottom of furballs makes that hard to do for me, but that is my general goal.

Offline mars01

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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2005, 07:26:31 PM »
Exactly, Guppy and Redd.

Quote
My death is not something I give away lightly, I try to kill and survive, I try to use actual tactics from WW2, I probably spend far too much time and money on books about WW2 aircraft and the men that flew them.

If you think the epitome of skill is flopping around the DA at zero feet in a Spit V and all you can do is kill, die, kill, die, kill die ad nauseam fine, not very bright, no sense of history, lacking empathy gamey little bottom feeders....not for me.


LOL Thats all well that is how you like to play, then by all means its your money and you should enjoy it the way you like.  But honestly to slam everyone else that don't fly like you is weak!  I could make many of the same derogatory points you made about people that fly safe, pretending they are the real deal, sitting on their perch, never taking a risk, clawing dearly to their make believe game life, many times the most boring people to run into and fight types.

And your whole realism pitch doesn't float either.  The G forces alone would probably keep 80% of the people online out of a real fighter cockpit.

Offline Morpheus

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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2005, 07:36:43 PM »
Quote
If you think the epitome of skill is flopping around the DA at zero feet in a Spit V and all you can do is kill, die, kill, die, kill die ad nauseam fine, not very bright, no sense of history, lacking empathy gamey little bottom feeders....not for me.


hehe:)
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Offline x0847Marine

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Re: How do you do it?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2005, 07:38:03 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kj714
First off this is not a bait, flame, disguised anything... it's an honest question!

You guys who get 5, 6, 7 + to 1 k/d ratios, how do ya do it?

I'm pretty thrilled when I get to 1 to 1 or so, and I know I'm on the lower end of the scale of pilotry skills, but dang thats a lot.

Granted I'll have days when I land a bunch and don't die much, but that's usually followed by a day or two of just getting splattered for some reason (it's a real pattern). I don't up capped bases, not hopelessly capped anyway, I'll give it a shot if it's only few and maybe they've wandered a bit from the field, (yes I fall for that everytime!:) )

Speak up, give up some hints, they'd be much appreciated!


Like any video game, which is all this is, practice.

In just about 3 months I'm just a few shy of 2:1 k/d, which is'nt 'good' relative to the better gamers.. but it hasn't taken a whole lot extra thinking to get there... just practice & learning the in's and outs of the games rules.

I quickly learned that while riding your imaginary plane down to the Eath in a ball of flames is the popular 'manly' thing to do... same as taking on 5 LA's in a P40.. it screws up your score in the end.

One thing that's improved my k/D alot is bailing out, even after being shot out of the sky a capture or successful bail isn't a death. If I'm shot to hell and being chased; bail. If I'm out numbered and it looks like I can't run; bail. Someone gets a cheap proxy kill and I don't get a needless death.

No, it isn't popular.. but when you start being concerned with what's popular and what's not.. you'll lose sight of staying alive. If a head on, running or bailing will get you landed, do it and just laugh at the ch:200 crybabies.

..but here's a 'trick' that's helped me see more.

Get in your plane, zoom in on the sight as far as you can... take a Sharpie marker and place a pin sized dot on your screen at the center of your sight.

Zoom out, "Page up" then F10 to save your head posisition... you'll no longer be able to see your sight, but can use the dot on your screen as your aim point... you'll get a few extra inches of unobstructed forward view.

No worries, the dot washes right off with a little moisture and a paper towel... if you're ghetto a drop of beer and your dirty underware works too.

Offline thrila

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« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2005, 07:42:43 PM »
Lol schaden!  Now i understand why you were so upset with me when i called someone timid on ch200.  I didn't realise timidty is a way of life for you.:D
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Offline mars01

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« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2005, 09:43:34 PM »
Quote
Originally Posted by:x0847Marine

 Like any video game, which is all this is, practice.

In just about 3 months I'm just a few shy of 2:1 k/d, which is'nt 'good' relative to the better gamers.. but it hasn't taken a whole lot extra thinking to get there... just practice & learning the in's and outs of the games rules.

I quickly learned that while riding your imaginary plane down to the Eath in a ball of flames is the popular 'manly' thing to do... same as taking on 5 LA's in a P40.. it screws up your score in the end.

One thing that's improved my k/D alot is bailing out, even after being shot out of the sky a capture or successful bail isn't a death. If I'm shot to hell and being chased; bail. If I'm out numbered and it looks like I can't run; bail. Someone gets a cheap proxy kill and I don't get a needless death.

No, it isn't popular.. but when you start being concerned with what's popular and what's not.. you'll lose sight of staying alive. If a head on, running or bailing will get you landed, do it and just laugh at the ch:200 crybabies.

..but here's a 'trick' that's helped me see more.

Get in your plane, zoom in on the sight as far as you can... take a Sharpie marker and place a pin sized dot on your screen at the center of your sight.

Zoom out, "Page up" then F10 to save your head posisition... you'll no longer be able to see your sight, but can use the dot on your screen as your aim point... you'll get a few extra inches of unobstructed forward view.

No worries, the dot washes right off with a little moisture and a paper towel... if you're ghetto a drop of beer and your dirty underware works too.


WOW - Marine, I'm gonna go out on a limb and assume you were or are a Marine and thus doing so I would ask you...

If you asked someone how to get through the Marine Core and they said "Fake It" and you'll be fine.  What would you be thinking.

Quote
If I'm out numbered and it looks like I can't run; bail. Someone gets a cheap proxy kill and I don't get a needless death.
This is completely weak!!!  First you are running rather than fighting your way out.  Second, your advice is to bail so as not to get killed accepting the once and a while a proxy is the worst it gets.  Holy Fk dude have you no self respect?  You actually think this is advice.  I'm not trying to be a Dik but dude are you seriouse.

Honestly this is a perfect example of how score is totally useless.  The fact that this kind of behavior is reflected with any positive benefit is total proof of that.

So Marine if your score is great, but you can't fight you way out of a papper bag, how good are you.  If that is all you need to feel like you are on e of the Top Guns your in for a let down.

The funny thing about this community is that no matter what, the good sticks are known because they will make the fight interesting, they will turn a bad situation into a good one, they will fly you to a point where you have lost all your advantages and now you are the hunted.  They won't run when out nuimbered because they have "Practiced" as you mentioned to turn those situations into a winning scenario.  Those are the Top Guns.

How hard did you practice if when challenged you bail, in order to save face and puff up your score.

As you said the only way to get better is practice and constantly put yourself in positions where you lose, so that you will sooner or later realize what you are doing wrong and be able to adjust and learn how to win in those situations.  

Bailing out when things get tough is not advice on how to get better it is only advice on how to pretend you are good.

I am not saying this to be an arse and start a fight with you, I am saying this because what you described is one of the worst kind of game play there is and a reason to revamp the whole score system and bring back any credibility in it.

When I am  most frustrated, doing stupid things and getting my arse handed to me, I try to keep in mind that...  For every fight I lose, some one else had just had fun and enjoyed themselves.  This attitude, while it doesn't work a lot of the time, allows me to
at least keep in mind that dying will only allow me to get better.

I can say this, because when I was a perch sitter I was ok, but I knew if I got off my perch I wasn't that good.  That is when I decided that to survive I needed to be able to win in situations where the odds were not in my favor.  I.e 3 V 1 4 or 5 V 1.  Once I started to win some of these I started getting to the next level.  

I am by no means great at this game, there are alot of guys at least as good or better than me, but one thing I know is that being good has nothing to do with score and everything to do with how you fight and how you lose.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 09:54:50 PM by mars01 »

Offline daMIG

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« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2005, 09:58:54 PM »
QUOTE@@@ I suffer from the same fate. The key, from my point of view, is don't even look at the stats.

If you are having fun, that's all that matters. The second I start looking at K/D, it makes me think about flying more timid and not diving into the pile with my 38G.

While I die ALOT in that big target on the deck in the mob, it's much more fun then waiting for the perfect opportunity to get a kill.

So I live by my F/D ratio. That being fun to death ratio  

Dan/CorkyJr@@@@

daMIG shows up on lots of your killboards. I hope that I have a good rep, and I rather fite to fite, climb to help me wingie, and vultch ruthlessly whenever I get the chance!! :D

Offline killnu

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« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2005, 10:02:12 PM »
i think good SA is the key.  all the acm in the world dont mean squat if you dont know he is there. :aok

and i fly to have fun, part of that fun is landing( for me any way).  i dont fly with the intent of being kilt, but i wont run from a good fight either, unless im low fuel, ammo or pilot wouned, in which case, sorry, if i can get out, i do.  now, i do prefer the advantages, but will fight from disadvantage if so called for, but i dont go try to fight from disadvantage.  point being, do you own thing and have fun doing it.
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Offline Redd

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Re: Re: How do you do it?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2005, 10:06:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by x0847Marine


One thing that's improved my k/D alot is bailing out, even after being shot out of the sky a capture or successful bail isn't a death. If I'm shot to hell and being chased; bail. If I'm out numbered and it looks like I can't run; bail. Someone gets a cheap proxy kill and I don't get a needless death.




lmao too funny

A good enough reason for me to start killing chutes (just in case one of them is you) - look out little hanging guys   , get those 45's out
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