Author Topic: Kill stealing  (Read 2092 times)

Offline Murdr

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Kill stealing
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2005, 03:53:32 PM »
Came across someone this morning who thinks is justified to follow a dewinged plane all the way down because he shot at it first.  I guess ignore the fact that all the time he was behind it, he allowed it to make a pass on me, and allowed it to live long enough for me to evade, reverse, follow a hard 180 turn left, follow a 270 turn right, take 3 adjustment shots, and 1 fire for effect burst.

I calmly say "hey now" as I watch him off my right follow the enemy missing its entire right wing, spraying away at it as it tumbles to the ground.  And the idiot answers with a huffy"yea because you tried to steal my kill".

My apoligies to all the bishop at 32 that my tirade may have annoyed while I told this player exactly what I thought of them.

Offline humble

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Kill stealing
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2005, 04:40:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Don
By way of update, I'm posting to get something off my chest; it's an aspect of the game which is uncalled for and unnecessary but, there are way too many who do it.

I'm on the 6 of an nme spit this past Friday night, am gaining from 400 yds to within 200 yds, and plinking the guy. I worked him to this position where he has no options and will eventually die.
In this situation, it is not up to me to watch my 6 for friendly a/c but, it happened that I needed to ;(
This twit in an F4U C dives down from outerspace and starts shooting over my shoulder at my prey, he isn't getting any hits, I am. He climbs up and dives down directly in front of me as I am shooting; too late for me, I take hits meant for my prey and rupture my gas tank; I leak gas and hafta break off and head back to base; which is under attack and the twit who flew in front of me to steal the kill, could have made his dweeby arse useful by defending our base.
I realize everyone is a paying customer in this game but, surely it's got to be important to some of these twits to have some honor, pride and some idea of fairplay; hell I didnt even get an apology from the ass.
You see it's this kind of thing that makes for bad feelings between participants and members of the community. I know the kind of things I'd like to see among us can't be legislated so, I'm gonna handle this in my own way, unfortunately it won't have any positive effects for the sense of community this game ought to have.


This where the "killshooter" barrel roll comes in....works wonders :)

However, the whole thread is even lamer...you cant "steal" something the other guy doesn't own. How many times to you get kill while RTB...or swoop in and light up what appears to be a perfectly fine plane and get an assist.

If it's in the air and in my sights I'm gonna pop a couple of rounds into it...just that simple...

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline Clifra Jones

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Kill stealing
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2005, 03:38:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by humble
This where the "killshooter" barrel roll comes in....works wonders :)

However, the whole thread is even lamer...you cant "steal" something the other guy doesn't own. How many times to you get kill while RTB...or swoop in and light up what appears to be a perfectly fine plane and get an assist.

If it's in the air and in my sights I'm gonna pop a couple of rounds into it...just that simple...


Agree to a point. BUT, if a plane is missing an entire wing or tail and flopping helplessly to the ground, what is the point of chasing it down and shooting at it? All this is is a cheap, dweebish attempt to get an easy kill. Most times they won't get the kill so it amazes me why they keep on trying.

Any plane that can still maneuver is a valid taget, no doubt about that. I will even acknowledge to the other pilot when I think they did the real damage if I know who they are.

It just ain't worth gettin' all jacked up about.

Offline humble

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Kill stealing
« Reply #48 on: June 13, 2005, 05:10:54 PM »
Clifra I dont disagree with you...but thats the 1%...the other 99% the plane is still flying and fighting after some bozo announced "spitty going down"...what he ment is "I hit the spitty & something fell off"...

In the end it evens out. Every once in awhile I'll run down a wounded bird and get the kill when I think I'm just cleaning garbage up for a friend or squaddie....but then again you get the breaks also. I once ran a jabo hop in a Jug (6 gun load out)....made 4 passes 2 1000's togeather on VH, 500 on radar and 2 rocket attacks on troops....spraying as I went....now even a jug gets pinged up a bit...so I was missing a elevator and aerlion and rudder and decided it was better to scoot then shoot. As I'm heading back to base I get 4 kills that trickle in 1 at a time...no clue if they from bomb or rocket damage or the spray and pray. Got a couple of whines on cty channel "who got the kill on the XXX"....

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."-Pres. Thomas Jefferson

Offline SuperDud

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Kill stealing
« Reply #49 on: June 13, 2005, 05:39:41 PM »
Didn't read the whole thread so forgive any redundency but...

I've had many of my kills stolen, it comes with the squad(no it's not just a running joke lol). I think it just comes down to your own personal veiwpoint for a "downed" aircraft. While most would say wing/tail totally gone others think if you set it on fire or take off 1/2 a wing it's "dead". I personally have found this not to be true at all. If I see a burning plane, I shoot it. 1/2 a wing is a bit fuzzier. If I see 1 I follow it, if it can maintain controll and goes in for a ditch/runs I shoot it, if not I keep an eye on it till it explodes. Whenever I set an aircraft on fire I announce it as quickly as possible and tell them to shoot it if they can. A 1/2 winged aircraft is pretty simple to finish off and I never have any problems with that. If however a guy sees a plane that I took 1/2 the wing off running home and he nails it, I'm fine with it even if I was still after it and gonna finish it. That's just the way the MA is. If I see a guy blatantly shooting a wingless airplane, I admit I get a little upset, but in the end I just think how sad it is he has to do that. In conclusion I think DREDIOCK said it best when he said it's not dead till it goes poof.
SuperDud
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Offline Kweassa

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Kill stealing
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2005, 12:36:19 AM »
IIRC, according to HTC the "judgement" is dealt out in the way that the guy that records most damage on the particular target is determined as the person who shot it down.

 The alternative method to this is determining kills by who caused destruction of vital structural surfaces absolutely required for flight. Once the particular destruction of certain flight surface occurs, all further damage are neglected in the 'count'. Ie) once a plane loses a wing, someone else can come by and shoot the crap out of it and take it apart, but it won't count as anything.
 
 The pros of this alternative is that the person who dealt the final blow to the target, so it cannot maintain flight any longer, will be determined as the person who shot it down - as it would in real life. The "vital surfaces" that are destroyed may be;

a) both H-stabs destroyed

b) V-stab destroyed (both V-stabs, in case of the P-38s and simular craft)

c) one complete wing destroyed(since some planes can fly with half-wing, only the destruction of one, full wing should count)

d) caused one fuel tank to ignite



 The cons of this alternative is that;

a) somebody could deal 99% of damage required to kill one of those 'vital surfaces', and yet, someone else might do the last piece of straw which breaks the back. This is problematic in multi-plane chases, when 3~4 friendlies chase one target. Someone could do 99% of damage, but the people who spray over his shoulder has a good chance of getting the kill - thus, this method might promote shoulder-shooting and other simular annoyances.

b) this method cannot account for other 'shotdown' situations such as augers or ditches. Since an augered target basically killed himself, no kills will be awarded to a person who might be at least partially responsible for the incident.

 ie.: when you shoot at a Mustang and rip out half-a wing... the Mustang can still retain flight with one and one-half a wing. You go in for the kill, the Mustang tries to maneuver, and he spins augers. This will not be counted as a kill for anyone.

 ie2.: what happens if someone deems his plane is flyable, but too much damaged for further combat, and then decides to bail? In reality, if a plane is flying, but the pilot is forced to bail out due to damage and fear of death, the guy who caused it would be awarded a kill. In this case, the current method would be much better.


 Would this alternative make more sense?
 Would its cons weigh heavier than the cons with the current method?

Offline SuperDud

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Kill stealing
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2005, 01:37:54 AM »
In the end I wouldn't change it. Just take the good with the bad and when someone does it..take a deep breath:)
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Offline AmRaaM

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Kill stealing
« Reply #52 on: June 15, 2005, 08:00:45 AM »
kill stealing is a fine art that I try to exercise at all costs.
Actually I never assume the a/c is 'ded' untill it either explodes or gravity takes it to mother earth. It's too easy to get away with 30% of the plane missing and land back at base.

So to those that practice this art !

To those that cry about it....get more or bigger bullets.

Offline SlapShot

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Kill stealing
« Reply #53 on: June 15, 2005, 09:22:40 AM »
I too am a proponent of the "catastrophic" scenario. The object of this notion is to stop scoring hits on the target at this point and whoever, at the point of "catastrophic" failure, has the most amout of points, is awarded the kill.

As far as your cons ...

a) somebody could deal 99% of damage required to kill one of those 'vital surfaces', and yet, someone else might do the last piece of straw which breaks the back. This is problematic in multi-plane chases, when 3~4 friendlies chase one target. Someone could do 99% of damage, but the people who spray over his shoulder has a good chance of getting the kill - thus, this method might promote shoulder-shooting and other simular annoyances.

If someone did deal 99% of the damage and the plane was still flyable, once the "catastrophic" blow is dealt scoring is halted. At this point, I don't think that it would outweigh the 99% therefore the kill would be credited to the right person.

b) this method cannot account for other 'shotdown' situations such as augers or ditches. Since an augered target basically killed himself, no kills will be awarded to a person who might be at least partially responsible for the incident.

I would leave the "proximity" code in place. If someone had landed at least one bullet on the augering/ditching plane, that person would be awarded the kill ... otherwise the proximity code determine who is awarded the kill.

ie.: when you shoot at a Mustang and rip out half-a wing... the Mustang can still retain flight with one and one-half a wing. You go in for the kill, the Mustang tries to maneuver, and he spins augers. This will not be counted as a kill for anyone.

Again, whoever scored the most amount of points/hits prior to the maneuver kill or the "catastrophic" undoing of the P-51, is awarded the kill.

ie2.: what happens if someone deems his plane is flyable, but too much damaged for further combat, and then decides to bail? In reality, if a plane is flying, but the pilot is forced to bail out due to damage and fear of death, the guy who caused it would be awarded a kill. In this case, the current method would be much better.

Same as above.
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Offline Murdr

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Kill stealing
« Reply #54 on: June 15, 2005, 10:53:31 AM »
This was the alternative I liked:

Quote
Originally posted by hitech

You can not award the kill at the time of damage. The outcome of the flight has still not been determined. The odds are he will crash and die,but that is not always the case.

But I have lost wings at times near ground and ended up with a ditch by luck.

What would be possible is that no more lethality points are tracked once certian componets fail. The plane could still be shot and more damage done, but no kill award tracking would be done, you still must stay living until the hit plane exits flight.

Been thinking about implementing this for a while, it just hasn't moved to the top of the list yet.

Offline hubsonfire

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Kill stealing
« Reply #55 on: June 15, 2005, 01:24:30 PM »
Regarding the pros and cons and how things would have to be done: I am fairly sure that the coding of all this is pretty well within Hitech's abilities (or whoever happens to coad it). Having read through the older damage/kill awarding posts, I never got the distinct impression that the guy who dealt the final 1% of damage to trigger the catastrophic failure would get the kill.

While I do not enjoy killstealers, or people who will try to killshoot to get in position to attempt the steal, I see no reason to rush to change the coading, and no reason to blow up on range. There are subtler ways to seek revenge, and I enjoy them.
mook
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