Author Topic: Tapping a clip on your helmet  (Read 2885 times)

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #90 on: April 27, 2005, 08:44:20 AM »
dr yo... I would suggest that you try to get the money back that your dad spent on your doctorate.   I would also suggest that whoever you are asking about these gun issues reply to me directly because you aren't comprehending or writing down what he says properly.  

the firing pin can't miss the round.   it has nothing to do with the magazine or the fact that the round is not seated against the back of the mag.   Mag problems are from stacking or from weak spring, dirt or deformed mag lips.   your real gem tho was saying that you mashed on the forward assist to rectify a misfire...  

seagoon... They let you own and store at your house handguns and rifles in Scotland?   I bet they didn't let you do a lot of deer hunting.

The .303 is  a "semi rimmed" round and as such is prone to failures to feed if the rims are lined up wrong.  The SMLE has a pretty good mag tho and I have never had any problem with it feeding slowly.   What is the round doing after it clears the mag?

lazs

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #91 on: April 27, 2005, 10:11:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
seagoon... They let you own and store at your house handguns and rifles in Scotland?   I bet they didn't let you do a lot of deer hunting.

The .303 is  a "semi rimmed" round and as such is prone to failures to feed if the rims are lined up wrong.  The SMLE has a pretty good mag tho and I have never had any problem with it feeding slowly.   What is the round doing after it clears the mag?

lazs


Hi Laz,

No, our guns were owned by the club and stored in safes at the range. Bolts, Guns, and Ammo were stored in separate safes. We used single shot .22 target rifles for "small-bore" competition and single shot 7.62 NATO target rifles for "full-bore" outdoor competitions. We also shot .22 target handgun (these were mag fed semi-autos). While some of the club members did own their own guns, I believe police registration and permission was required. After several of the laws changed, one of our members, who was doing the British version of ROTC (UOTC - University Officer Training Corps) in the Territorial Army (the British version of the National Guard) was forced to surrender a number of guns including an L1A1, the British Army version of the FN FAL, which ironically was the same type of rifle he was using in training.

I only went hunting once while I was in the UK and that was wing-shooting with a double barrel shotgun loaned from a friend. That was a great success, and I hope never to have to pluck a grouse again for as long as I live.
----------

Regarding the Enfield problem, keep in mind I do not own an SMLE:


I own a WW2 Canadian MK.4 Circa 1944:


I don't know if that affects the magazine feed as I've never owned an SMLE, but the rifles are at least slightly different in design.

Tell you what, I'll try to take some digi cam pics of the problem using a spent cartridge tonight and post them to the web so you can "see" what is happening.

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #92 on: April 27, 2005, 11:52:51 AM »
Quote
I would also suggest that whoever you are asking about these gun issues reply to me directly because you aren't comprehending or writing down what he says properly.


you asked for it go argue with them...

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/index.html

write them a letter telling them their training (FM 3-22.9) is all wrong and you could help them. (be shure to post a copy of such letter here for our entertainment..)



Quote
your real gem tho was saying that you mashed on the forward assist to rectify a misfire...


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/3-22-9/c03.htm#3_1

heres some "Gems"


3-1
A stoppage is a failure of an automatic or semiautomatic firearm to complete the cycle of operation. The firer can apply immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage. Some stoppages cannot be cleared by immediate or remedial action and may require weapon repair to correct the problem. A complete understanding of how the weapon functions is an integral part of applying immediate action procedures.

a.   Immediate Action. Immediate action involves quickly applying a possible correction to reduce a stoppage without performing troubleshooting procedures to determine the actual cause. The key word SPORTS will help the firer remember the steps in order during a live-fire exercise. To apply immediate action, the soldier:

S

    * laps gently upward on the magazine to ensure it is fully seated, and the magazine follower is not jammed (see note).

P
    * ulls the charging handle fully to the rear.

O
    * bserves for the ejection of a live round or expended cartridge. (If the weapon fails to eject a cartridge, perform remedial action.)

R
    * eleases the charging handle (do not ride it forward).

T
    * aps the forward assist assembly to ensure bolt closure.

S
      queezes the trigger and tries to fire the rifle.

{LAZ's tell them to remove the T portion, right}

theres more...

3-2

Malfunctions are caused by procedural or mechanical failures of the rifle, magazine, or ammunition. Pre-firing checks and serviceability inspections identify potential problems before they become malfunctions. This paragraph describes the primary categories of malfunctions.

a.   Failure to Feed, Chamber, or Lock. A malfunction can occur when loading the rifle or during the cycle of operation. Once the magazine has been loaded into the rifle, the forward movement of the bolt carrier group could lack enough force (generated by the expansion of the action spring) to feed, chamber, or lock the bolt

Its get better....

you fellas look at 3-2 A for what Lazs and others were talking.. (remember i said we were both right to first post that apprently does not compute with our new armorer overlords)

But i want what im talking about so here....


3-2 B

Failure to Fire Cartridge. This is a failure of a cartridge to fire despite the fact that a round has been chambered, the trigger pulled, and the sear released the hammer. This occurs when the firing pin fails to strike the primer with enough force or when the ammunition is defective.

(1)   Probable Causes. Excessive carbon buildup on the firing pin (Figure 3-2, A) is often the cause, because the full forward travel of the firing pin is restricted. A defective or worn firing pin can give the same results. Inspection of the ammunition could reveal a shallow indentation or no mark on the primer, indicating a firing pin malfunction (Figure 3-2, B). Cartridges that show a normal indentation on the primer, but did not fire indicate faulty ammunition.

Sear released sounds like the firing pin trying to strike the round..(as i describe d in my posts, not what others have put into my mouth and claimed i said..)  But your say..

Quote
the firing pin can't miss the round.



Hell Lazs the army is hard up why dont you join and put all of that superior gun knowledge to use..   I mean by your standards the forward assist is a design flaw not used to push the bolt forward to enshure proper operation of the bolt / firing pin to the round.. they could use a brainiac like you.  You be SGT Major in no time flat..



hows the serving of crow out in Dixon, you want seconds..


DoctorYo


PS:  Looks like I wont have to hit my dad up for money he did not spend on my college tuition..  but if you want to think that please be my guest.. based on deductive reasoning of you recent crow in mouth i would say you have no credibility at all..  anymore?  thought so..
« Last Edit: April 27, 2005, 12:04:20 PM by DoctorYO »

Offline Suave

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« Reply #93 on: April 27, 2005, 12:52:33 PM »
Our armorers made a habit of telling anybody they saw tapping a magazine with live ammo against our heads or something to stop doing it.

They said it isn't necesary and it stresses the joints of the magazine and causes them to spread in the front of the mag.

I heard more than one armorer from more than one place say that, so I figured it was a message that came down from on high.

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #94 on: April 27, 2005, 01:01:45 PM »
The lever I was talking about is possibly near the back of the bolt, or on the left side.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #95 on: April 27, 2005, 01:44:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
The lever I was talking about is possibly near the back of the bolt, or on the left side.


Hi Lasersailor,

On the LeeEnfield 4 that lever is the safety. I always work the bolt with the safety off, the only time I have it on is when I am travelling to my stand or climbing into it.

- Seagoon
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline lasersailor184

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« Reply #96 on: April 27, 2005, 01:48:57 PM »
No, i'm not talking about the safety.  The 1903 has a safety on the very back of the bolt too.
Punishr - N.D.M. Back in the air.
8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #97 on: April 27, 2005, 02:04:46 PM »
I'll take a look when I get home.

Thanks,

SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #98 on: April 27, 2005, 02:21:47 PM »
dr yo yo... thank you for all the cut and paste info on jams.   We all knew that stuff allready.... what we didn't know was that when a gun missfired you simmply mashed on the forward assist to get it to fire or that the cartidge could be in the chamber at such an angle that the firing pin completely misses the "round" (much less the primer).

these are the things you said... when you were told that you got everything else right except that you threw an ego based hissy fit and simoly...

aren't man enough to admit you are wrong on a couple of simple matters.  

It's ok tho... everyone else knows it by now.

lazs

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #99 on: April 27, 2005, 02:54:18 PM »
the above sounds like back peddling to me...

Note i include proof....  with links...


you provide more rhetoric, heresay and out right lies/misrepresentation...

keep digging maybe you'll hit china by the end of the week..


DoctorYo


PS you write Tradoc yet?   can't wait to see it and their response..

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #100 on: April 27, 2005, 03:24:47 PM »
yo yo..
You include proof that a round can be chambered far enough to alllow the bolt to go into battery enough for the firing pin to function but miss the round entirely?

maybe I missed it and the link showed that a missfire could be rectified by simply mashing down on the assist and then... then what?   You correct a missfire in a hammerless rifle by ejecting the round.  

What is your problem with admitting that you made a mistake?

lazs

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #101 on: April 27, 2005, 03:33:42 PM »
and yo yo... please read your own cut and paste.

everything said there proves our point and disproves yours...  the forward assist is not used because the firing pin missed the round or even made a light strike.  it is used to get the firing pin to even work.

you cut and past also says what i said... that, a light strike is caused by a defective firing pin or dirty one.   not because the round is chambered wrong... it doesn't say that anywhere.  

It all says pretty much exactly what I told you.  

you were simply wrong and you just kept saying more wrong things.

lazs

Offline DoctorYO

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« Reply #102 on: April 27, 2005, 04:01:00 PM »
Just becuase the field manual does not say the pin completely misses the primer does not mean it has not happened..(those are the most common issues. not all documented issues in the armed forces..  imagine every month or so amending that FM and reprinting it..  yeah right..  nice try though..)

the episode where i had a deadlined weapon with the firing pin left no mark whatsoever on the primer.. (maybe some residue from dirt and oil but mark/indent the primer no...) (And i stand by that also)

the Fm doesn't say alot of things but it clearly describes both scenarios I did describe earlier.  the same one's where you said i had no clue and inserted alot of heresay as my text.. that is till the final FM backed rebuttal.. (now its just desperation spewing)


Like i said keep digging... whats next punctuation, grammar, and spelling

When im wrong ill admit it ...  as stated earlier i'm not wrong on this one, you are...

even with all your so called expertise..  a simple google search would have set you straight... (I knew what i was saying was out there just took me time to find the actual manual.., but having experienced the scenario first hand; I knew I was right.. just a matter of finding the proof to back it..)

And even then you still try to nitpick.. (your arguments are getting weaker and weaker just FYI)

you wrote tradoc yet.... Dont argue with me argue with them..

I want to see you amend the sports technique.. (you say the T portion is a gem and not needed be shure to tell them that..) with your expertise they will listen to you no doubt about it...

lets see the letter..  



DoctorYo

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2005, 09:56:56 AM »
yo yo.... please stop... you are even embarassing me.

your own cut and paste explained why a firing pin would not leave a mark on the primer.... it is a defective or dirt clogged firing pin or firing pin hole.  It is impossible for the pin to miss the round because the round is in the chamber at an angle that would allow that to happen.... the bolt would be about half closed for this to happen and the rim would not even be caught by the extractor.

sheesh... you are willing to spread all this dissinformation just to not have to admit to one minor place in your original post where you had it all srong?

even tho we all admit that for the most part your post was correct... and... I admit that all your cut and paste from field manuals is essentialy correct (although simplified)

geeze...  look at yourself.

and there is nothing wrong with the "t" section.  What is wrong is how you state that after the firing pin goes click... it is time to apply the forward assist... this will do nothing.  the reason for the forward assist is to get the round far enough into the chamber to allow the firing pin to be released.  

At this point... those not terminally bored are wondering what exactly is wrong with you.

lazs
« Last Edit: April 28, 2005, 10:02:04 AM by lazs2 »

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2005, 10:10:41 AM »
Not to interrupt the YoYo Chronicles, but I did want to apologize. My wife and I had a date yesterday, and taking pictures of the problem with my Lee-Enfield did not rate high on the agenda. I'll try to snap some photos before this thread dwindles to nothing.



- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams