Niki vs Hellkitty

[Redd]

Originally posted by soda72
F4U-1C has 328 Kills of N1K2 tour 38
N1K2 has 305 Kills of F4U-1C

F4U-1D has 17 Kills of N1K2 tour 38
N1K2 has 84 Kills of F4U-1D

F6F-5 has 54 Kills of N1K2 tour 38
N1K2 has 102 Kills of F6F-5

F6F-5 has 17 Kills of Ki-61
Ki-61 has 20 Kills of F6F-5


Bf 109F-4 has 28 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 34 Kills of Bf 109F-4

Bf 109G-2 has 12 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 15 Kills of Bf 109G-2


keep the plane sets competitive  

Thank you Soda


Those stats back up exactly what I've been saying all along.  The niki actually outclasses the blue planes by a greater margin than the SpitV outclasses the axis planeset . Yet all I hear is the Spit V is an abomination, and shouldn't be allowed in the CT  

Where are the FW vs SpitV stats and G10  vs SpitV stats  

[Redd]

Originally posted by Soulyss
Interesting discussion I've always considered the F6F vs N1K to be one of the best matchups in AH.  It's been my impression that the planes stack up against each other very well.  I welcome a fight against  a N1k no matter the circumstances.  I dunno maybe I've been running into sub par N1k drivers I'd like to give it a go against a experienced pilot... but against your average MA or CT goer I figure my odds were at least 50-50.  I never felt like I was at a disadvantage in my Hellcat.

Soulyss

You are very good in a hellcat, and you are probably coming up against average niki drivers.  In Pac time the japanese guys like Wingzero and Taki etc etc  fly the niki a lot , so I have had some experience trying to fight them - the Hellcat is totally outclassed.

In our recent DA test with one of the guys flying Hellcat  aganst a niki , he barely lasted 30 seconds each fight. Try one sometime 1-1 duel conditions , you'll be suprised

[Grits]

Originally posted by VWE
You do good just gettin the damn plane in the air grits!  .squlech grits

Well, that is true.

The first time out I was the second highest in kills on the allied side with 3 and an assist, but the second one, we never managed to engage the enemy. It was still fun though.

[TheBug]

Originally posted by Grits
Well, that is true.

The first time out I was the second highest in kills on the allied side with 3 and an assist, but the second one, we never managed to engage the enemy. It was still fun though.

I do believe Grits has placed the red light in his window.

[Soulyss]

I'd love to try some 1v1.  I do suspect a lot of my success against the N1k has been more to mediocre opponents than to any skill or aircraft advantage on my part.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Redd

Where are the FW vs SpitV stats and G10  vs SpitV stats  

couldn't find any stats for g10 vs spitv...

N1K2 has 11 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 11 Kills of N1K2

A6M5b has 503 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 614 Kills of A6M5b

Ki-61 has 205 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 204 Kills of Ki-61

A6M5b has 35 Kills of F6F-5 tour 38
F6F-5 has 26 Kills of A6M5b


Fw 190A-5 has 21 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 28 Kills of Fw 190A-5

Bf 110G-2 has 3 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 6 Kills of Bf 110G-2

Bf 110C-4b has 7 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 11 Kills of Bf 110C-4b

Bf 109G-6 has 4 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 3 Kills of Bf 109G-6

Hurricane IIC has 42 Kills of Bf 109F-4 tour 37
Bf 109F-4 has 39 Kills of Hurricane IIC

f4 before +16 spitcopter introduced
Bf 109F-4 has 558 Kills of Spitfire V tour 30
Spitfire V has 478 Kills of Bf 109F-4

Hurricane IIC has 93 Kills of Bf 109F-4  tour 30
Bf 109F-4 has 158 Kills of Hurricane IIC


f4 after +16
Bf 109F-4 has 159 Kills of Spitfire V Tour 33
Spitfire V has 282 Kills of Bf 109F-4

Hurricane IIC has 46 Kills of Bf 109F-4
Bf 109F-4 has 35 Kills of Hurricane IIC


Keep in mind that the totals may also reflect a greater number of sorties flown.... Since the number of sorties flown per model is not given the totals could be misrepresented..

[bj229r]

Of all the planes which can kill a hangar in 1 pass, I find F6F most surviveable (get low, chased by La7..etc)

[humble]

Well,

Redd made a believer out of me, smacked me down 5 (or 6)straight. Two or three were really fun fights...but the hellkitty never got to fire those .50's...basically defensive from merge...2 of em were dead on arrival...screw the pooch on the merge and its over. Given the limitiations of my skill set I had no counter to mid fight verticals by the nikki. Iwas able to avoid a number of shots in some of the fights but got driven down in a defensive fight...sooner or later those 20mm gonna get you....

[Redd]

Originally posted by soda72
couldn't find any stats for g10 vs spitv...

N1K2 has 11 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 11 Kills of N1K2

A6M5b has 503 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 614 Kills of A6M5b

Ki-61 has 205 Kills of F6F-5 tour 30
F6F-5 has 204 Kills of Ki-61

A6M5b has 35 Kills of F6F-5 tour 38
F6F-5 has 26 Kills of A6M5b


Fw 190A-5 has 21 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 28 Kills of Fw 190A-5

Bf 110G-2 has 3 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 6 Kills of Bf 110G-2

Bf 110C-4b has 7 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 11 Kills of Bf 110C-4b

Bf 109G-6 has 4 Kills of Spitfire V tour 37
Spitfire V has 3 Kills of Bf 109G-6

Hurricane IIC has 42 Kills of Bf 109F-4 tour 37
Bf 109F-4 has 39 Kills of Hurricane IIC

f4 before +16 spitcopter introduced
Bf 109F-4 has 558 Kills of Spitfire V tour 30
Spitfire V has 478 Kills of Bf 109F-4

Hurricane IIC has 93 Kills of Bf 109F-4  tour 30
Bf 109F-4 has 158 Kills of Hurricane IIC


f4 after +16
Bf 109F-4 has 159 Kills of Spitfire V Tour 33
Spitfire V has 282 Kills of Bf 109F-4

Hurricane IIC has 46 Kills of Bf 109F-4
Bf 109F-4 has 35 Kills of Hurricane IIC


Keep in mind that the totals may also reflect a greater number of sorties flown.... Since the number of sorties flown per model is not given the totals could be misrepresented..

OK Soda

So now  with the stats in hand , the fights been done, and the numbers in, can we all agree now on these two points


1.  The Spit V ,  in spite of it's uberness does not exert an overwhelming influence on the CT when it flies in historical context against the axis matchups


2.  The Niki , is just  as uber as the Spit, in it's historical context, and historical matchups



Both should be allowed to come out to play, to ostrasize one over the other is hypocritical .


I'll shut up then    

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by Redd
Both should be allowed to come out to play, to ostrasize one over the other is hypocritical .

Just so I can get my two cents in...

In Pacific setups, you rarely find everyone flying the Nik, especially with the addition of the Frank.  There are many of us who fly the Tony, too, and a hard-core set who fly the porked zeke.

By contrast, when the spit is enabled (at all fields, heh), it seems to me that the overwhelming majority of allied pilots fly the spit.  This is fine if your setup is supposed to be "RAF Operations in the ETO," but it does cut down on the variety.

- oldman

[storch]

Originally posted by humble
Well,

Redd made a believer out of me, smacked me down 5 (or 6)straight. Two or three were really fun fights...but the hellkitty never got to fire those .50's...basically defensive from merge...2 of em were dead on arrival...screw the pooch on the merge and its over. Given the limitiations of my skill set I had no counter to mid fight verticals by the nikki. Iwas able to avoid a number of shots in some of the fights but got driven down in a defensive fight...sooner or later those 20mm gonna get you....

while redd sure plays a mean cartoonball keep in mind that he is at the exact other end of the sphere.  his ping rates may differ slightly from yours which may be offering him an advantage slight though it may be.

[soda72]

Originally posted by Redd

Both should be allowed to come out to play, to ostrasize one over the other is hypocritical .
 

I wouldn't come to that conculsion.. Any plane that is too dominate should be counter balanced or limited in some way...  

In most PAC CT setups the Nik is limited or not included(at first at least).  The same should go for the spitv.

setups that only include the f4 and spitv suk now...  

If the before and after stats between the f4 and spitv for tours 30 and 33 doesn't interest anyone than I guess there's not much more to say...

[humble]

Originally posted by storch
while redd sure plays a mean cartoonball keep in mind that he is at the exact other end of the sphere.  his ping rates may differ slightly from yours which may be offering him an advantage slight though it may be.

We didnt swap out so its only data from one side..but I felt 2 of the 5 I flew as well as I could. I forced multiple "overshoots" {we were in a rolling vertical scissors loopy thingie} and had no E to even get a good shot...the nikki just floated back up above and rolled back in on me to rinse and repeat....obviously alot of it was Redds excellent flying but the kitty was justhung out on the edge of its envelope with nada to give. Again a better kitty driver might have scraped an extra 5% out of it and tagged him....but I could fly10 and not get 1:o

Clips are available if anyone wants to watch the slaughter. I dont think the difference is as great as the 109/spitV. Phish didnt even seem able to make a fight of it where Iat least felt I made redd work a bit:). I'll go back tru and pull 1 of each and put em up for comparision....

[humble]

This is the 1st hop between Redd and I, all in all the others are similiar if they got beyond the first merge....

http://www.azhacker.com/images/nikkivsredd.ahf

[Redd]

Originally posted by soda72
I wouldn't come to that conculsion.. Any plane that is too dominate should be counter balanced or limited in some way...  

In most PAC CT setups the Nik is limited or not included(at first at least).  The same should go for the spitv.

setups that only include the f4 and spitv suk now...  

If the before and after stats between the f4 and spitv for tours 30 and 33 doesn't interest anyone than I guess there's not much more to say...

Yeah I agree Soda , even treatment is all that should happen. I only started this whole thing because of all the wailing and gnashing and threats of walk-out and  "See you in a week" every time the Spit V gets mentioned .