Author Topic: Fighter Arena? (Read 5207 times)

kj714 · « **Reply #105 on:** May 10, 2005, 04:39:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Yes, the chances of a new arena are not good. My feeling is that it will never be done. With that said though:

30 people in the DA does not mean 30 people furballing. It may be 5 furballing at a base, 7 training at another and 10 furballing a another and 8 practicing bombing at another.

Not what I'd call a FA.

As far as friendly fire. It would be disabled for the same reason it is disabled in the MA. So that the pissing contests don't get out of hand. Can you imaging what happens if someone starts accusing another of kill stealing? Or some moronic uberdweeb decides he's going or go into the FA and start studmuffinging people for fun.

But the furball people would be elite enough that wouldn't happen, honor and all that. Not like the unwashed masses of the MA.

Seriously, that could be dealt with easily enough. Not a show stopper.

kj714 · « **Reply #106 on:** May 10, 2005, 04:47:16 PM »

Maybe we could get some squad commitments? I can probably get some DF's there like Racrx, Tactic, Spazzter, Cobrakev, B1RD, Guano, Duchess for awhile anyway. Those are our players who are on pretty much every night.

XrightyX · « **Reply #107 on:** May 10, 2005, 05:36:39 PM »

Edbert1 · « **Reply #108 on:** May 10, 2005, 06:36:16 PM »

I don't presume to speak for the BKs, but knowing our penchant for furballing I'd say most of us would make a showing.

Kweassa · « **Reply #109 on:** May 10, 2005, 06:43:20 PM »

I don't object to a Fighter Arena..

..but my opinion is whatever needs to make gameplay better, should be focused on the MA, and whatever changes should be centered on making the MA more fun, not ripping it apart.

IMO, many vets and experienced players are disgusted and tired of 'doing things by the book' not making a single dent in gameplay, whereas 'dweebism' pays off major dividends.

This whole discussions sorta feels like "federationists" vs "separatists"

kj714 · « **Reply #110 on:** May 10, 2005, 07:08:55 PM »

Well, since Dipstick started this thread, if enough people want to do it, I think the BK's oughta call it.

Kweassa, I think it would probably only be a now and then thing, or maybe one night a week if it caught on, no ripping apart of MA required.

eskimo2 · « **Reply #111 on:** May 10, 2005, 07:09:01 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa
I don't object to a Fighter Arena..

..but my opinion is whatever needs to make gameplay better, should be focused on the MA, and whatever changes should be centered on making the MA more fun, not ripping it apart.

IMO, many vets and experienced players are disgusted and tired of 'doing things by the book' not making a single dent in gameplay, whereas 'dweebism' pays off major dividends.

This whole discussions sorta feels like "federationists" vs "separatists"

"Better" is relative. To many, the FA would be better, to the majority, the MA would still be where its at. The things being asked for in the FA will please only some; they would ruin the MA however. There are plenty of players that just want some faster action. They are, at least at times, willing to chuck the "battle for land" and variety that can be found in the MA for a simple intense brawl.

eskimo

Kweassa · « **Reply #112 on:** May 10, 2005, 07:59:13 PM »

Quote

"Better" is relative. To many, the FA would be better, to the majority, the MA would still be where its at. The things being asked for in the FA will please only some; they would ruin the MA however. There are plenty of players that just want some faster action. They are, at least at times, willing to chuck the "battle for land" and variety that can be found in the MA for a simple intense brawl.

Could be.

But I'm not entirely sure a FA would be really 'better for many', because seeing how the MA operates, and how the people in the MA react, I'm guessing that the popularity of the MA comes from the fact that it is an integrated arena of sea, land, and air.

Sorry for the long post, but this is what I think about the issue;

*People more seriously oriented to A2A fights do not really care about the land-grab aspect of the MA. They probably care only as much as it would help secure, undamaged bases to up planes in, and hold a stable ground to ensure consistent A2A combat. However, the more time I spend with AH and the MA, the more I'm driven to think these 'A2A folk' are a dying breed in the MA.

Most of the MA folk like the MA because the fact that there is much to enjoy in a single platform. Most of these guys are barely average in A2A skills alone(barely average in EVERYTHING, for that matter).. and yet, they still can find a purpose and feel needed by the team.

* They like the competition, and they like how they can become a part of something bigger. They may be sucky pilots, but when they move with the horde, they become a valauble asset in providing the main strength of the horde - numbers, literally. If fighting A2A is much too hard for them, then they can always up a Osty or M16 and park on the field, and shoot at the attacking enemies. Or, they could go to the CV and up PTs to scout the area, or up LVTs to help capture.. or they could up bombers and spray bombs on the enemy field.. etc etc.

Up with a horde and look around you - 90% of your team mates in that sector will probably die out within the next 15 minutes. Up in GVs and 90% of your friendly GVs will be busted as they reach enemy base perimeters. These average guys, are what consist the MA. Despite the fact that they are only average, they consist a part of a bigger force that ultimately captures bases and wins territories.

* Now, imagine a fighter arena. No doubt some of the better pilots and prestigious squads will have a smashing time in it. But would the rest of the MA-folk want to go there? Every time they up in the FA, they will be shot down like flies. They will die again and again, same as in the MA, but this time, they have no purpose to do so. It doesn't help with any strat or tactical maneuver because there aren't any in the FA. As soon as they realize the A2A competition is much more intense than the MA, and they can't cope with it(unless they become an ace pilot themselves), they will be faced with a choice;

1) stay in the FA, keep facing the humiliation and frustration of being shot down again and again.. and then become a good pilot

2) return to the MA. They are sucky pilots, GVers, gunners and etc etc.. but at least in the MA, they are a part of something and have a purpose to fight and die. They will feel good, if their feeble attempts somehow payoff and kill the last remaining FH or townbuilding, and your team mates get the capture. And etc etc..

* The point is, the very fact that there is much going on at the same time, is what keeps people in the MA. AH is undoubtably an flight sim game, but not all of AHers are A2A purists. In fact, most of AHers are people who enjoy the universal combat that resembles WW2 action in some way - air, sea, and land.

So, if the FA opens, will people go there?

My guess is, all of the people who were bored with the MA will go to the FA. Just like all of the people who were bored with the MA, and thought the CT would be an alternative, showed themselves in the CT.

But after one or two years, soon they will realize they will only meet the same people again and again in the FA. Under the same circumstances again and again.. even the greatest of A2A enthusiasts won't stand for fighting in the same arena, same conditions, against same enemy pilots again and again. It's basically the same thing as flying in a boxed-game multiplayer session.

* The MA is not fun for many A2A enthusiasts because it lost its balance. And I believe the MA still can be made more fun - retain all of its good points, and still provide a good and intense A2A fight, and regulate the lameness and dweebism that ruins gameplay for many.

IMO, ultimately, a FA is gonna hurt AH, more than anything else.

Schaden · « **Reply #113 on:** May 11, 2005, 06:02:40 AM »

The MA works because it's game play gives a reason or a point tot he whole experience - the FA will simply resemble an artificial, non historical, gamey place for a few to practice what they feel is the pinnacle of the AH experience.

Reducing the fuel burn to allow the absolute minimum of fuel to be carried - well why not have it as zero so you don't need any fuel and why land at fields, since it doesn't matter about score why have fields at all?? Just give everyone a 5k air start with unlimited ammo - you won't have to worry about ack over bases or landing to rearm and refuel.

IL2 FB - a game which I enjoy for it's flight modelling and eye candy fails hopelessly ( for me) as a multiplayer game - the reason - there's no point to it all, up a plane, kill die, kill die, kill die or maybe kill kill then die oh wow the excitement of it all - but there's no bigger objective to the whole process so is about as interesting as watching paint dry.

Fighter Ace used to have a room like this - acm only, no ground war bastardized flight model to make it easier to acm, make it easier for newbies to "fly" and get some kills - we used to call it the crayon room and btw Fighter Ace are about to go out of business.

Roll on TOD and whilst there are things I don't like about the MA I find enough fun to keep subbing, if I want to go hunting for kills I can, if I want a base capture or defend a base or work with people for a common goal I can.

In the version described the FA will have gang banging on a huge scale as soon as a squad logs on - you can't evade by alt or speed so the bottom feeders will eventually kill you, the ack running with higher ack values is going to have to be seen to be believed and no newbies are going to last longer than about a minute - so they'll be back to the MA after being killed for the 10th time by some preening "ace" or be put off by the whole experience and go and find another game.

I'm not however saying don't set up the CT for a week as FA, just be careful what you wish for.

Redd · « **Reply #114 on:** May 11, 2005, 08:46:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa

IMO, ultimately, a FA is gonna hurt AH, more than anything else.

You're doing too much deep thunking

People try it - they don't like it , they go back to MA .

People try it - they like it , they stay there.

People try it , they lke it a little , they alternate between FA and MA.

Not sure how any of that is bad for AH. Can't see why anyone would can an idea that is totally optional , and has no negative affect on the existing player base. is 's like saying please remove the DA bcause I don't want to use it, therefore no-one should use it.

Eagler · « **Reply #115 on:** May 11, 2005, 08:58:24 AM »

it would probably be the most populated week in CT if it were introduced as another scenario in there

I think CT was created just for this - a player controlled arena for diversity, experimentation and fun

the fact that is has evolved into a totally "historic" room has not done anything for it but limited it's participation.

mixing it up a little will bring much needed life to the entire CT concept, not kill it or hurt the MA

DipStick · « **Reply #116 on:** May 11, 2005, 09:16:45 AM »

Thanks for all the responses. Sounded like fun. Would be another choice. HT crapped on it. I have enough to worry about in real life. I'm done with it.

If gameplay remains sucky in MA or even gets worse which is barely possible, I will join those who have quit for the very same reason.

pellik · « **Reply #117 on:** May 11, 2005, 12:41:15 PM »

What a lot of you guys missed when you keep talking about MA gameplay being dependent on having all of those precious options of yours is that those of us who want to furball are directly opposed by those very options.

I break the MA down into four major groups when I fly, and judge who to kill first accordingly. First there are the furballers. These are the guys who want to TnB and fight above all else. They are by far the most fun to fight, and this group includes most of the aces in the game.

Second there are the cherry hunters. These are guys who usually want to aspire to furballers, but lack the confidence necessary to turn fight. There is a lot of cross-over between these two groups, as many good pilots pick and some good pickers can turn. The difference is in whether they trust their abilities and press an attack or back off and follow you around for 10min in a fight waiting for you to become distracted killing their friends. If you pick me using the later method you can bet I'm gonna come back and pick you, and if you're my first target there is very little chance of you ever catching me off guard as I'll hit tab and put a big red box around your plane.

The third group are the GV furballers and the milk runners. I group them togeather because they both have about the same impact upon my game -- they are content to play with each other and they are usually fun to chat with on vox.

Finally are the fun police. These are the guys who, under the excuse of "winning the war", set out on a mission to end whatever fun other people may be having. If a set of bombers knocks out FHs at a field that is undefended, they are milkrunners. They fly in at 20k or sneak in otd to destroy FHs at a field sporting a furball, or knock out the VHs at tank town. These are the guys I'll drop everything to kill. Sure I'll probably get jumped by the horde after I dive to the deck to pick em, but they deserve it and I don't value my K/D. This group of people need to be restricted, but always get the loudest defenders on the forums. The furballers get screwed because these guys hit FHs at every fight that goes for more then 10min. The pickers get screwed by this as well, because when the hordes dissipate they have to fight fair. The GVers get screwed when the VHs at tank town get taken out, whether it's theirs or their opponents. The milk-runners get screwed as when the furball gets broken up all those fighters spread out to the rest of the front and can't find anything else to kill. I put these guys in the same category as xmarine who bails out of his plane early because he thinks it pisses the other guy off. They are the guys who kill all their teammates at the beginning of a round of coutnerstrike.

-p.

AKFokerFoder+ · « **Reply #118 on:** May 11, 2005, 12:58:50 PM »

I don't know how many of you ever played Red Baron 3D.

They had free for all arenas. The FFA arenas were mindless furballs. Everyone could shoot everyone else, you all took off from the same base. I could get a 100 kills in a night.

Mindless, intense furballing, almost instant action. And the arenas were packed during prime time.

It was the most fun you could have sitting down. Well... pretty close to the most fun anyways.

I participated in the Great Wars, and squad events. But for pure fun, the FFA were my favorites. Second were the arenas where the airfields were close and you flew on one of two sides.

Red Baron died from two things. One was that the graphics were based on Glide, (not Open Glide). Thus when Nividia bought out 3DFX and trashed the whole Voodoo chipset video cards, there were no video cards that ran Glide natively. And any glide wrappers you tried gave marginal performance, tearing etc.

The second thing was that almost after they released Red Baron 3D, Sierra dropped the game, so there was no support and there were some serious flaws in the damage model.

But the game lived on for years in spite of the problems.

And it stayed so long partially because of the FFA arenas were so much fun.

Red Baron didn't die because it offered some of it's customer base a purely fun place to play. A place where there was no objective other than to just let it all hang out.

Elfie · « **Reply #119 on:** May 11, 2005, 01:31:04 PM »

Foder, there were always people at the Fighter Town atol in the Big Pac arena in AirWarrior as well. It was fast action and a total riot.

Then when they made an actual Fighter Town arena that place was ALWAYS busy during prime time.

HiTech has never really given any reasons why (that I know of) he wont give us "Deathstars" (which were a riot as well) or a Fighter Town area. It seems like if it was fun in another game then no, you can't have it.