Originally posted by VOR
Before science could explain the sun, it was a god.
Before science could explain volcanos, earthquakes, floods, swarms of insects etc they were the work of one god or another depending on local custom.
Science cannot currently explain the existence of matter or the creation of the universe; to some, it's a hypothesis or an educated guess while to others it's god.
Thinking along these lines, I really wish I could get a glimpse of a future world and how it might or might not be different from the one we live in today. After all, over the last few thousands of years, the study and manipulation of our universe has turned alot of "I believe" into alot of "I know". Is it possible that knowledge may eventually supplant religion entirely?
Some call this the "god of the gaps" approach. And yes, many limit their thoughts of "proofs" to the explanation of the unexplained. I agree that this is inadequate.
originally posted by Hangtime
cripes.. if a competent educated adult equipped with basic observation skills can eyeball the world human situtation in general or in detail and still believe that god is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnibenevolent, I have got a heluva deal on a slightly used bridge for him.
No checks, please. Cash only and in small bills
See my last post. Any comments?
originally posted by Hangtime
Nuke hate to drop a dookie in yer cream of wheat, but 'religionists' just ain't capable of reasoned debate. Another cranky old man put it like this:
"The most ridiculous concept ever perpetrated by H.Sapiens is that the Lord God of Creation, Shaper and Ruler of the Universes, wants the sacharrine adoration of his creations, that he can be persuaded by their prayers, and becomes petulant if he does not recieve this flattery. Yet this ridiculous notion, without one real shred of evidence to bolster it, has gone on to found one of the oldest, largest and least productive industries in history.
Frankly, potatos perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly."
Have a nice day!
OK, I'm open for rational debate. And whoever this "grumpy old man" is, I suggest that he (and those who share his biases) are choosing to forget many of their intellectual forebears. I challenge anyone to say that Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, Pascal, and (to fast foreward to the 20th century) C.S. Lewis were idiots. I guess I msut assume that you, Hangtime, have never read their works -- because if you had, you couldnt possibly believe that it is impossible to be intellectual and believe at the same time.
Your grumpy old amn has chosen a particulary inflammatory, biased way to describe faith. History is full of power hungry, Machiavellian people who have used cultural structures (including the church) for their own purposes. This does not reflect the real core of religion, any more than the Oklahoma City bombers refelcted teh AMerican values they claimed to honor with their terrorism.
Many who claim to be religious treat their relationship with god like a pocket talisman, and not surprisingly they show little or no life impact. They give people of faith a bad name. The God who presents himself in Chrstianity cannot be shoved into a tidy box, though even most believers try to shrink him to a controllable size. It won't work.
But look at the lives of those who truly live what they claim to believe. Tell the beneficiaries of Mother Theresa's mission that she was the product of the "least productive industry in history." There are thousands of "religious" inner city "rescue" groups, overseas mission hospitals, and relief organizations across the world today, and the compassionate sacrifices of their workers are a direct outgrowth of their faith. The slve trade, and slavery itself, were banned in England and the US only by the vigorous efforts fo Christians. (While US southern slave owners claimed biblical backing for their crimes, they were clearly incorrect: Their "proofs" relied on snippets taken selctively, and required willfully ignoring large chunks of teachings.)
One could easily argue, in fact, that the scientific and cultural growth of the entire Western world finds its basis in Christian philosophy. Christianity, and its forebear Judaism, were the first religions to teach that the world and its forces were the products of an intelligent, understandable designer -- and not the side effects of polytheistic or aministic feuds and forces. This assumption of consistanccy and comprehensibility formed a necessary foundation for scientific exploration, and the thought processes it engendered (including the value of the individual regardless of station) are an irrevocable cultural heritage.
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