Possible game fixes?

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Furious
There is nothing to get.  You are never where your enemy sees you and your enemy is never where you see him.  You or he might have been there a half second ago, but not now.  

You and your enemy are only ever at the same place at the same time at your house on your monitor.

If you could look over two players shoulder in two different places at the same time, you would be able to see their different positions.


...also, not everyone who has a collision feels the need to cry like a baby about it on ch. 200.

Look, no one is at the same place at the same time.  Fine, I anderstand that.  That does not mean they will never get there.  Net lag, means that the same information is getting to everyone at different times and therefore, 200ms (or what ever the number is) latter the other guy should also see the collision which if you won, you will be rewarded with a proxy by the way.  

The way you guys describe net lag is that different people get different info from the server.  That would explain why one sees the colison and another does not.

Its not a whine by any means.  I am just trying to understand something since what the  BBS experts are describing as net lag does not explain it.  Then again, if that would reveal too much about how the game is implemented thats cool too.  But if the answer is net lag, I would like to understand why lag causes different info to get to different people.  

HT, thanks for taking the time to talk about it

[dedalos]

Never mind.  I think I got it.  FEs or the server don't transmit location info every single ms.  Therefore, it is possible that between transmisions the two FEs get out of sequence and therefore have different info on the exact bad guy location.  The bigger the lag, the bigger the location difference.  Does that mean the best conenction will lose though?

Does that make sence HT?

Thanks.

[Arlo]

I think people too often think of "lag" as something that can be completely overcome. It can't be. At least according to the laws of physics we operate under. It can only be better or worse. And by better there are still limitations. After all, the speed of light is constant. It's how far it has to travel and how much interferance it has to deal with that are the variables. That being said, any game over the internet at all, no matter how pristine the connection or how much horsepower the pc has or how big a pipe the data can run through, is going to have lag. And and air to air combat in AH is going to have lag. We have to get over lag.

HT *HAS* gotten over lag. He has, in my opinion, the best solution for any online dogfighting game in his smoothing and collision codes. While it may be in our nature to demand more and to demand perfection it may not be a practical request. And in the best interest of resources, there can only be so much time wasted on the same dead end over and over.

Perhaps it's time for HT to add specifics over what's practical and impractical dealing with aircraft collisions in the FAQ:

http://www.hitechcreations.com/ahhelp/faq.html

[Kev367th]

Thanks for replying HT, can't say I totally get what it is, apart from that people aren't where you really see them.
Which kinda sounds gaga, but what the hell.

Can you tell what exactly contributes to the lag, i.e. distance, connection speed, ping time etc. Thanks.

[hitech]

Think about what things look like if you are always seeing someone where they were 1 sec ago. Only if two people are not moving will they see eachother at the samep place and time.

As 2 lag, primarly 2 factors, distance and number of hopps. Connection speed is only a very small portion of lag.

HiTech

[Tilt]

Originally posted by hitech
Think about what things look like if you are always seeing someone where they were 1 sec ago. Only if two people are not moving will they see eachother at the samep place and time.


HiTech

I know you were "exampling" but its far less than a second isnt it?

Kev I look at it this way............

My ping time at log in to the MA is about 120ms.

Assuming that is 60ms each way. and a location packet every 50ms smoothed to a delay of 25ms with a server delay of 50ms.

FE 1 = 25ms
FE1 to sever = 60ms
Server = 50ms
Server to FE2 = 60ms
Fe 2  = 25ms   ??

Total = 220ms  say 250ms (quarter of a second)

at 300 mph ground speed thats an error of approx 35 yards per plane.

Tail chasing the error is added so the chaser sees the chased 70 yards closer, than the chased sees the chaser, and collides with him 70 yards before the chased sees any contact.

HO the errors are subtracted so both collide at the same time (both die) but the collisions occur 35 yards apart on the respective FE's.

You must have seen folk comming late out of a tight loop merge and firing apparantly behind you to get a kill on you. REM you tow your target on a big elastic band 15 to 30 yards behind you.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Tilt
Tail chasing the error is added so the chaser sees the chased 70 yards closer, than the chased sees the chaser, and collides with him 70 yards before the chased sees any contact.

But the question is, is the chaced going to see the contact 250ms latter?  And what ever the correct answer is, why do I seem to loose 99% of them?  I got a ping of 30ms.

[Tilt]

Originally posted by dedalos
But the question is, is the chaced going to see the contact 250ms latter?  And what ever the correct answer is, why do I seem to loose 99% of them?  I got a ping of 30ms.

The chased will never see the chaser catch him up......in my example at 300 mph the chaser will explode some 70 yards behind the chased.

if one party had a ping of 30 ms (instead of 120) giving a contributiong lag of 15 instead of 60 (diference of 35ms) then it happens at 65yards. If the server and FE lags are less then it happens closer still.

Obviously to collide one has to be faster than the other but this just make the calculation more complex it does not change the dynamic. eg one could have been at 299.999999mph

Why do you seem to lose them?

Ramming folks from behind or merging into them from the side you will always lose. ( as above)

So rolling sissors? reverse lead turns? If you practice hard high speed turns meeting at less than 90 degrees  at the apex?

In each of these manouvres if your FE shows you collide there is little chance that the other guys FE showed the same. If these styles of combat dominate your play then collisions will seem one sided to you.

or else ....what HT said......

[MOIL]

HiTech:
For instance dedalos claims he never won a collision. I bet this is not the case. What realy is happening is, he has never seen himself collide and only the other guy collide. Well this is exatly as it should be. What he is missing is that he wins a collision and never thought of it as a collision, because he missed the guy who acctualy collieded with him. Therefore he never thought of it as a collision.

I guess that makes some sense, but here's what doesn't. If two planes "collide" {IRL} or game would seem both planes are going down period. I could never see how two A/C hit each other and only scratch the paint? I guess I could be missing something

[Ghosth]

First off there is a huge difference between real life 2 planes colliding. (yes both take damage)

And in AH 2 planes colliding, where all the planes really are is a bundle of data moving through a 3d space.

Go back & reread the WHOLE thread Moil.

Let us know what parts you don't get.



Its all about what you see on your end.

[RTO]

Anybody heard of the "Sturmstaffle"????  There in lies the tactic of ramming.

[straffo]

Originally posted by Matrix
Anybody heard of the "Sturmstaffle"????  There in lies the tactic of ramming.

don't confuse SturmStaffle with Rammjäger

[Arlo]

Don't like the sound of either of those imports. I think they're marketed to the homosexual crowd.

[Flyboy]

Originally posted by hitech
Collisions and bullet hit packets can not be droped with out being disconected. On occasion they can be delayed, but not lost.

Connection speed has no effect on if you collide or not. With collisions what you see is what you get. If you see your self collide you did. Just as with the other guy , if he sees his plane collide he will take damage.


HiTech

ok, make sense.
but that doesnt explain the wierd dammge you recive when colliding with another planes.

I lost ailrons got fuel and engine oil leaks.
how can that occour in a collision?

please explain mr. wizzard

[mussie]

Hey Flyboy

Its one thing to ask for clarification, its another thing to poke the COAD with a stick....

Someone once said to me "what you are doing is either very brave or very stupid" (long blurry memory don't ask)

which do you think "please explain mr. wizzard" falls into

and yes I saw the smilie