Author Topic: EU just won't take "No" for an answer  (Read 2962 times)

Offline bj229r

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #75 on: June 02, 2005, 09:27:30 PM »
The EU constitution is 468
articles long.... the US constitution was...13., and to make it worse, was written mostly by a failed socialist president (D'Estaing is correct spelling?)
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers

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Offline Hangtime

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #76 on: June 02, 2005, 09:50:14 PM »
Yah... Norway looks good on paper.

But.. you live there. That's gotta pork the numbers.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Vulcan

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2005, 10:45:37 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
BARK*BARK*BARK*BARK...

*sniff*

YIPE,YIPE,YIPE,YIPE,YIPE, yipe, yipe, yipe, yipe, yipe, yipe, yipe, yipe


We are not amused...


Offline Airhead

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2005, 10:47:21 PM »
The problem with Europe is they have 93 different Nations all crammed together in a space smaller than Texas. Of course they're gonna fight.

Offline Hangtime

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #79 on: June 02, 2005, 10:49:22 PM »
over what? who's got the grey poupon?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Wolfala

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #80 on: June 02, 2005, 11:15:59 PM »
GS,

Whats with the new posting account?


the best cure for "wife ack" is to deploy chaff:    $...$$....$....$$$.....$ .....$$$.....$ ....$$

Offline Vulcan

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #81 on: June 03, 2005, 01:06:02 AM »
is it just me or is there something about Auntie Helen's pose?


Offline straffo

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #82 on: June 03, 2005, 01:16:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
The EU constitution is 468
articles long.... the US constitution was...13., and to make it worse, was written mostly by a failed socialist president (D'Estaing is correct spelling?)


d'Estaing and if he is socialist or failed then I'm your grand mother.

Offline Saintaw

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #83 on: June 03, 2005, 01:27:55 AM »
Vulcan, I wish I hadn't seen those... I will never sleep again!

Gscholtz, please... never, ever type the words "Luxembourg" and "Military" in the same sentence, or I will die laughing :D
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline beet1e

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #84 on: June 03, 2005, 02:02:33 AM »
I think the whole thrust of the Dutch and French NO votes this week was not about the constitution (few people are likely to have read it in full) but a vote against the European parliamentary machine, and the EU's "one size fits all" approach to the member states. That, plus the fact that people don't want to be governed by an unelected assembly of politicians who treat the views of the Euro electorate with contempt. By that I mean guys like Jacques Chirac who, as soon as the result became known, are quick to point out that the show will go on - the referenda "won't make any difference - we're going to press on regardless". I think people have had enough of the Tony Blair style of doing things. The former leader of the Conservative party, Iain Duncan Smith, nailed it during an interview with John Simpson on Channel 4 news. As he put it, the Chiracs of this world simply interpret the result of the referenda as the "wrong" result, and look for ways to bludgeon the electorate into voting for the "right" result.

I have come to think of the EU parliament as a graveyard for failed politicians. I think it's the ultimate irony that the former Labour leader Neil Kinnock, who lost two consecutive general elections, should hold such high office there. In the 1970s/early 80s, Neil Kinnock was one of the most outspoken critics of the EU and was vehemently opposed to Britain's continued membership. Of course, all that changed when he could see the opportunities that it presented. For him, that was a job at the EU in 1992 on a tax free salary of around £140,000 with accommodation expenses met by the EU, and a generous cash allowance for "other expenses". I don't know much about Kinnock's role these days. I heard he was in charge of rooting out corruption, but was found to be sweeping it under the carpet. If true, the cap certainly fits.

Typical of the EU's "one size fits all" approach was last year when the ten new members joined, and it was announced that each would receive a grant of £3m for their fishing industries. But wait - three of those new member states (Czech Republic, Hungary, Slovakia) are land locked countries and do not have coastlines. Typical of the EU's "railroad it through regardless" approach was for them then to say "Oh, well they have rivers that can be fished..."

The EU was formed initially in 1957 under the Treaty of Rome. It was a trading bloc. In English, it was known as the "Common Market". As such, I was very much in favour of it. I couldn't see any advantage to trade barriers, quotas, and tariffs on each other's products, so it was good when that ended, and good also that we can live and work in any of the other member states without having to apply for citizenship etc., and good that in most cases we can move freely between countries, eg. drive across borders without having to stop for passport stamping.

So in 1975, when Britain held a referendum to decide upon Britain's continued membership, I voted YES. Most people felt the same way, and the vote was carried 2-1.

But the "Common Market" has undergone a metamorphosis. First it became the EEC (European Economic Community) and then simply the EC (European Community) perhaps when it was decided it was no longer economic! Now it's the EU, but it's not about trade any more. It's about being governed from Brussels, and being subjected to a parliamentary machine whose laws take primacy over the laws of the individual member states.

To anyone whose been watching from the sidelines this past few years, it seems pretty clear that the MEPs don't give a toss about the will of the people they supposedly represent - hence all this talk about pressing on regardless of what the population says in those countries which have at least been allowed to voice their opinion. And it's that that the people of France and the Netherlands voted against this week. If Britain were to hold a referendum, the result would be the same - and for the same reasons.

Offline mora

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #85 on: June 03, 2005, 04:53:57 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz3
Hey Cpxxx, I just took a quick look at the HDI numbers:

http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/

HDI rank

Norway 1
Ireland 10
Luxembourg 15


Human development index
(HDI) value

Norway 0.956
Ireland 0.936
Luxembourg 0.933


Long-term unemployment
(% of labour force)

Norway 0.2
Ireland  1.2
Luxembourg 0.7


Health expenditure per capita
(PPP US$)

Norway 2,920
Ireland  1,935
Luxembourg 2,905


Life expectancy at birth
(years)

Norway 78.9
Ireland  77.0
Luxembourg 78.4


Public expenditure on education
(as % of total government expenditure)

Norway 16.2
Ireland  13.5
Luxembourg 8.5


Public expenditure on education
(% of GDP)

Norway 6.8
Ireland  4.3
Luxembourg 4.1


GDP per capita
(US$)

Norway 41,974
Ireland  30,982 (second to Luxembourg ... yeah right)
Luxembourg 47,354


Military expenditure
(% of GDP)

Norway 2.1
Ireland  0.7
Luxembourg 0.9



Well, Ireland does have a higher HDI rank than Luxembourg, but that's to be expected since Luxembourg isn't much a real country, but more of a tax paradise French province like Morocco. 10th HDI rank is very respectable indeed, but to say that Ireland is second to Luxembourg in wealth is more than a stretch of the truth.


No wonder the Norwegians are paying $35 for a pizza with extra cheese. Your purchasing power is way lower than Luxembourg or Ireland.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2005, 05:00:09 AM by mora »

Offline Momus--

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2005, 04:54:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by bj229r
and to make it worse, was written mostly by a failed socialist president (D'Estaing is correct spelling?)


Valéry Giscard D'Estaing was a Gaullist conservative who lost the 1981 presidential election to Mitterand, who was a socalist.

Offline mora

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #87 on: June 03, 2005, 06:02:56 AM »
That's only GDP per capita, not real purchasing power. I'm not in the mood for searching real purchasing power figures. But I know that Norway is only a little if any better than Finland, which is on the same level as Portugal.

Offline Saintaw

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #88 on: June 03, 2005, 06:16:26 AM »
Daniel... Didn't go to Spain very often, but yes... I tend to agree that they are HOT too :)
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Offline Krusher

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EU just won't take "No" for an answer
« Reply #89 on: June 03, 2005, 07:18:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz3
Hey Cpxxx, I just took a quick look at the HDI numbers:

http://hdr.undp.org/statistics/data/

.


What does any of that have to do your original claim that Ireland is poor? Even your stats seem to prove that statement to be false?