Author Topic: nikkys and their cannons  (Read 2038 times)

Offline Big G

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nikkys and their cannons
« on: June 07, 2005, 10:13:42 AM »
guys,
Took a nikky up and got involved in some low and slow twists and turns on a spit 9.
I had my guns converged for 275? I waited and waited and got to 200-400 on a consistint basis and never even downed him ? At one point I was way under 200 and still nothing? I aimed for wings, engine etc and before I could ry again (  4 good firing solutions beforehand) I was hit on my six by somebody else.

Do you have to fire from a longer distance on the nikkys ?
Cheers
Big G

Offline Deth7

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2005, 10:29:01 AM »
I run at 300 shoot at 400 on in.  Cannon rounds fall off faster than
50's, chances are your missin low. Also in ma type " .target 275 "
and fly due north and a target pops up it shows where your hittin.
You can set it for other distance too. To turn it off type  .target 0
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Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2005, 10:50:16 AM »
If you guys were turning pretty hard, it sounds like you just weren't leading the guy enough.

As Deth says above, those type 99 II rounds drop a lot faster than a lot of other rounds.  While the 99II doesn't have the worst Muzzle Velocity in the game, it's certainly not the best.

I guess I would like to know what you usually fly, to get a good comparrison of the guns involved.

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Offline StarOfAfrica2

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2005, 12:30:08 PM »
Something else to consider, if your guns are set to converge at 275.........

At 400 out, your shots have already converged and crossed each other, and you are trying to hit his left wingtips with your right cannons (and vise versa), but they have probably fallen off that far from convergence and are falling below him.  By the same token, if he's at 200, your shots havent converged yet and your rounds could be passing right over his wings and to either side of his canopy without hitting.  These arent MG bullets with nice flat trajectories.  You need to be aiming AT the convergence point, firing when you reach it, and trying to stay right close to it.  Leading a target with those 20mm they will drop hard.  If your convergence is 275 you should probably be shooting at a distance of 175-225, depending on how many Gs you are pulling in the lead turn (which is why, unless I'm in a tyffie or tempest with 4xhispanos, or a spit, I prefer lag turns and wait for a level shot with cannon-armed planes).

Since target ranges between 400 and 200 dont show (and this is just my opinion), you are far better off setting your convergence at a point you can be fairly sure of (either 400 or 200) and know from your rate of closure how close you are, firing just before and after your range counter clicks down to convergence range (in other words, if you set at 400, and you see the range go from 800 to 600, when you think its about to change to 400 squeeze the trigger so you are already firing when it rolls down to that 400 mark).

Offline Big G

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2005, 01:06:54 PM »
funny you guys should mention Hispanos, I hardly ever miss in them, I usually fly all the spits and was trying the nikky out.
I set the hispanos and 303's (or 50's in the 9) to around the 250 mark, I get to sub 400 and i'm usually good to go, there was some tight turns so no doubt i probably wasn't leading enough, I know, I know ! back to the drawing board for Big G........
Cheers Guys

Offline dedalos

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Re: nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2005, 01:08:28 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Big G
guys,
Took a nikky up and got involved in some low and slow twists and turns on a spit 9.
I had my guns converged for 275? I waited and waited and got to 200-400 on a consistint basis and never even downed him ? At one point I was way under 200 and still nothing? I aimed for wings, engine etc and before I could ry again (  4 good firing solutions beforehand) I was hit on my six by somebody else.

Do you have to fire from a longer distance on the nikkys ?
Cheers
Big G


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Offline GreenCloud

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2005, 01:09:58 PM »
i never have my convergs that close...500+


who the hell has time in the MA to get that close?/

Offline FiLtH

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2005, 01:22:23 PM »
It seems some planes cannon drop quicker than others. The niki seems to..as does the Ki61. If Im tolin around in the F4uC, then jump in a Niki..it takes a few tries before I find the right aim point again.

~AoM~

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2005, 01:46:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by FiLtH
It seems some planes cannon drop quicker than others. The niki seems to..as does the Ki61. If Im tolin around in the F4uC, then jump in a Niki..it takes a few tries before I find the right aim point again.


I'm no expert by a long shot, but I believe that in game it is all (or mostly) about the weight of the round and the muzzle velocity. The Hispanos are the longest of the 20MM rounds in game. They are heavier than any other 20mm, and come out with the fastest MV of any 20mm round. As far as I can tell, this is what causes people to get such varying results.

To compare the 2 guns that Big G is dealing with, really shows the differences:

Hispano: Rate of Fire: 10 RPS Projectile Weight: 130 gms Muzzle Velocity: 860 MPS

Type 99II: Rate of Fire:8 RPS Projectile Weight: 128 gms Muzzle Velocity: 750 MPS

So in a N1K2 v. F4U-1C comparrison, the Chog will fire heavier rounds at a higher velocity, and more of them per second.

The N1K2 cannons are deadly, but if you are used to using the Hispano, or .50 cals, then you are going to have to "unlearn" how much lead you need to give people.

-Sik
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Offline Aubrey

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« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2005, 01:53:28 PM »
I have been flying the Nik latley I was flying the FM2. The unlearning of the lead was a problem for a bit. I have also found you need to account for your movement  (turns) more with the Nik than you do for the .50s

Offline Clifra Jones

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2005, 02:12:56 PM »
IJN/A cannons take some getting used to. They are probably some of the worst cannons ballistically in the game. They have good hitting power but require greater lead the more G's you are pulling. I set mine out to 325 as I find I get the best ranging with that setting. I can hit out as far as 400 with the right angle.

Offline Sikboy

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« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2005, 02:34:38 PM »
I should mention that all of the data from my post is from Anthony Williams' website:

http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

One of the coolest resources on the web if you ask me. It kind of explains a few things about the behavior of AH guns.

-Sik
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Offline Heretic

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« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2005, 05:43:03 PM »
I set the convergence on the N1K 20MM at 400.      I have hit as far as 800.  Now, I haven't downed the plane at 800 but I got him to turn which gave me time to close to 600 or less and get some lethal hits on the AC.

Offline Morpheus

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nikkys and their cannons
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2005, 06:52:33 PM »
Niki's are crap as crap. I hate them. I hate this thread. The only good nik is one on fire and smashing into the ground.
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Offline Ack-Ack

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« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2005, 06:54:40 PM »
/cheer Morpheus!
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