New Perk-Point Plane-Type Assignment Suggestions:

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Karnak
Excuses.  The P-38L is decisively better as a multirole platform that most any 1943 fighter.  Frankly I'd like to put the P-38J on the list too, but I didn't think that suggestion would be fair to P-38 fans.

Note that I put the F6F-5 on the list too.

 

Excuses? Hardly. Please demonstrate the DECISIVE performance edge you claim. The J model, by the way, was developed in 1943, and not 1944.

[pellik]

The P38L and P38J compete reasonably well for performance as a fighter. They both stall fight like a dream, and they both offer the best guns package in the game (IMO). Like the P47-D11 which is also on the list, the P38 is attractive to the more skilled pilots in the game. These arn't "uber" planes as far as performance goes, but in the right hands they have great potential.

The large difference in K/D between the PL and PJ has two main causes. To your average noob who wants to fly a 38 after getting schooled in his n1k the PL looks much more promising. It's ENY is a full 20 points lower then the PJ, so obviously the PL must be more uber-er. Like the P47-D11, reguardless of  performance the PJ simply looks too intimidating for the noobs. Then there's the difference in ordinance options. The PJ simply doesn't have the mega rocket option of the PL, nor does it offer dive flaps. Jabo pilots don't live long, and with them goes the PLs K/D.

It's also worth note to consider just how much effect the few dedicated PJ pilots have on this game. I usually maintain a K/D above 3 in the PJ despite repeatedly upping from vulched fields (I just like the quick action, even if the situation sucks). In both April and May I pulled in nearly 1000 kills in the P38J alone. AKAK holds a K/D of  5:1 for nearly 300 kills. My point is that just a few pilots can durastically affect the K/D of an unpopular plane.

I know most of this is just rehashing the last couple of posts, but

[killnu]

My point is that just a few pilots can durastically affect the K/D of an unpopular plane

isnt that the truth.  last month i was 8.5 to 1 in G.  only 300 kills tho, so small sample i guess.

[pellik]

Originally posted by killnu
isnt that the truth.  last month i was 8.5 to 1 in G.  only 300 kills tho, so small sample i guess.

Yeah, well, that's what you get for trying to survive and not upping from vulched fields.

[Kweassa]

Excuses? Hardly. Please demonstrate the DECISIVE performance edge you claim. The J model, by the way, was developed in 1943, and not 1944.

 Let's see.

 The most decisive performance advantage would be the ability 2x 1,000 lbs bombs and 10x HVARs.

 Remember why the Chog was perked. It was a good fighter, but more than anything, it was THE multi-purpose platform of AH. Quad hizookas, 4x HVARS + 2K payload, operational from CVs, and excellent performance as a fighter too.

 The perkage applied to planes, has a lot to do with what the plane means in the MA as a whole, not just as a fighter.

[Murdr]

I know one time months ago I looked at mystats v arena stats, and had like 2.4% of all kills in 38, and something like .03% of all deaths.  Add a few more good sticks tilting the stats like that and Im sure it adds up.

Average players fly the L.  Many above average players dont frequent the L anymore.

[Edbert1]

Model ….. Perk Cost
A6M2 ….. 0
A6M5b ….. 0
Ar 234 ….. 50
Bf 109E-4 ….. 0
Bf 109F-4 ….. 0
Bf 109G-10 ….. 5
Bf 109G-2 ….. 0
Bf 109G-6 ….. 0
Bf 110C-4b ….. 0
Bf 110G-2 ….. 0
C.202 ….. 0
C.205 ….. 0
F4F-4 ….. 0
F4U-1 ….. 0
F4U-1C ….. 10
F4U-1D ….. 0
F4U-4 ….. 10
F6F-5 ….. 0
FM2 ….. 0
Fw 190A-5 ….. 0
Fw 190A-8 ….. 0
Fw 190D-9 ….. 5
Fw 190F-8 ….. 0
Hurricane IIC ….. 0
Hurricane IID ….. 0
Hurricane Mk I ….. 0
Il-2 ….. 0
Ki-61 …..0
Ki-84-Ia ….. 0
La-5FN ….. 0
La-7 ….. 5
Me 163B ….. 100
Me 262 ….. 200
Mosquito Mk VI ….. 0
N1K2 ….. 5
Ostwind ….. 0
P-38G ….. 0
P-38J ….. 0
P-38L ….. 5
P-40B ….. 0
P-40E ….. 0
P-47D-11 ….. 0
P-47-D25 ….. 0
P-47-D30 ….. 0
P-51B ….. 0
P-51D ….. 5
SeaFire ….. 0
Spitfire Mk I ….. 0
Spitfire Mk IX ….. 5
Spitfire Mk XIV ….. 10
Spitfire V ….. 0
Ta 152H ….. 10
Tempest ….. 50
Tiger I ….. 50
Typhoon IB ….. 0
Yak-9T ….. 0
Yak-9U ….. 0

[Karnak]

Why do people suggest perking the mid-1942 Spitfire Mk IX when it is used significantly less often than the superior late-1942 Spitfire Mk V?

Why do people suggest perking any 1942 fighters?

[SkyChimp]

Why perk the pony?

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by Karnak
Why do people suggest perking the mid-1942 Spitfire Mk IX when it is used significantly less often than the superior late-1942 Spitfire Mk V?
 

My perk values were based mostly off of a plane's overuse. originally I did not put one on the 9, then I looked over the list and could see skies full of 9s which would be one of the fastest unperked rides on the list and threw a 5 on there. Of course as you allude...the Spit-5 would become as common as opinions then....sigh.

I recall well the pre-perk Chog days, 25% of the arena when there were 6 planes was something, but now we have 15% of the aircraft in the sky being La7s, that is a larger percentage of the available planes than the Chog ever was.

I just get tired of the same old planes day after day after year after year...group of dots inbound...3-N1Ks/6-La7s/4-51Ds/plus a gaggle of spits/dora/run-o-nines just gets old. I want more diversity in the air is all.

I thought pretty hard about the typhie and the yak too, they can be quite deadly and have strong cases for deserving a perk value, but they also have serious flaws that kept them off my list. Basically all the uberfast planes (D9 and G10 are NOT average speed TK!)  that are not currently perked got a 5. the overperked planes 14/and dash4 got reduced.

I really like kev's idea too, cumulative totals, take all accusations of bias out of the mix. Possibly need to add a 3@20mm option in there though.

[SFCHONDO]

Edbert, I like your list. I would still make the LA7 and C-hog 15 perks tho. I fly the C-hog alot and feel 15 perks for it is a fair price.

Curious if HT has read this thread and would like to know if he is considering any changes to the perk system.

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by SFCHONDO

Curious if HT has read this thread and would like to know if he is considering any changes to the perk system.

I (obviously) don't know if he's read this thread or not, but since I know he has read others just like it at least a hundred times and changed nothing I would guess...."NO".

[Karnak]

SkyChimp,

1944 superfighter.  What more needs to be said?  Fast at alt, fast on the deck, long range, good payload, decent firepower and great visibility.

Edbert,

I think you greatly overestimate the Mk IX's speed.  For AH purposes it is a 320-340mph fighter.  Almost all fighters are faster than that, not just the speed demons such as the Typhoon that you left free.

A sea level speed of 321mph is downright slow.

[Edbert1]

Originally posted by Karnak
I think you greatly overestimate the Mk IX's speed.  For AH purposes it is a 320-340mph fighter.  Almost all fighters are faster than that, not just the speed demons such as the Typhoon that you left free.

I mentioned other fast unperked planes like the typ and Yak already.

It wouldn't be hard to talk me out of not perking the Spit-9 as it is now. But if they set the boost like the Spit-5 has it would have to be perked. When I put a 5 on it I figured that if the La7/51D/G10/D9 are set to 5 then the howls of protest would be deafening if the Spit9 wasn't also. It is about as fast as any plane when a gentle dive is used, and the E-retention is so good I have chased down many faster (level flight) planes with the Spit9 and an alt-advantage.

That is what I liked about Kev's idea, take all accusations of bias out of the mix.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Let's see.

 The most decisive performance advantage would be the ability 2x 1,000 lbs bombs and 10x HVARs.

 Remember why the Chog was perked. It was a good fighter, but more than anything, it was THE multi-purpose platform of AH. Quad hizookas, 4x HVARS + 2K payload, operational from CVs, and excellent performance as a fighter too.

 The perkage applied to planes, has a lot to do with what the plane means in the MA as a whole, not just as a fighter.

Karnak declared the P-38L to be a "1944 SUPERFIGHTER". Nothing was said about Jabo capability. Further, the REASON the L has a lousy K/D ratio compared to the J is the fact that it has Jabo capability. When being used in a Jabo role, the fighter performance is terribly handicapped. A full TON of bombs plus 10 rockets makes it mediocre at best, when loaded. Tryting to deliver that load it won't fight. It will likely be killed trying to deliver the load if there are slick fighters in the area, making its fighter performance a non issue. Jabo use negates all of the qualities of the P-38 that make it a good fighter, especially climb, acceleration, and low speed handling. And once again, especially since the P-38L does not have the Lockheed rated power advantage over the J, it has only the dive flaps and boosted ailerons over the J model, and the J model is lighter and handles better. Neither is a "superfighter" compared to the performance advantages others hold. That it is flown well be a few selected experts is irrelevant. If you want to make that sort of rationalization, then perk the Spit series and the Typhoon because of how well Leviathan or others fly them. Doesn't work well, does it.

The CHog has only a great set of guns, decent durability, and mediocre performance. It is NOT fast, it climbs like a T-34, and it accelerates like a slug. And again, handicapped by use in a Jabo mission, it is mediocre at best, even with the killer gun set.

Now you are confusing fighter ENY and perk costs with your overall agenda. This thread is mostly about fighter performance,
and not really concerned with your "new perk agenda".