Author Topic: O'club (Read 11738 times)

eagl · « **Reply #270 on:** June 14, 2005, 04:23:39 PM »

And they were REALLY special. Some still are.

mauser · « **Reply #271 on:** June 14, 2005, 04:53:02 PM »

I agree with eagl and SlapShot's great posts.

In my opinion, the O'club was fine when people talked about good food and drink, fast cars, fast planes, fights with pets, generally fun stuff. Made me want to visit the midwest for some real barbecue, actually consider a car with more than 4 cylinders for my next ride, and be wary around cats among other things. However anytime current events or politics got involved, it was usually an inevitable train wreck. Add in the ones that seem to be born to push the envelope on the user agreements just to show how clever they are and well...

Looking back at posts from the early years, people used to discuss different aspects of the war a lot more than they do now. History, tech, flight models... it seems to be limited to the A&V section for the most part now, which sees very little traffic. What happened? Now it's all about what other people do with their time online.

I guess it'll be a matter of how HTC decides where to spend their resources. Taking responsibility for your own actions would have helped a lot though...

mauser

Saurdaukar · « **Reply #272 on:** June 14, 2005, 05:03:10 PM »

Jesus, Allah and Cows everywhere this hasnt been locked yet?

O'Club Resurrection or BAN!

Sparks · « **Reply #273 on:** June 14, 2005, 05:32:47 PM »

Well just my take - personal situation has meant I haven't flown for maybe 18 months but still keep paying to keep my ID and keep in touch. I travel a lot and the O'club has been a point of reference for years - like going in to a pub anywhere in the world and finding the same folks. If I ever get a situation where I would be able to play again the O'club has kept me here.

I think killing it is a bad idea.

I'm with Airbumba - put a button on the post header "Kill Post" - when X number of people have hit the button the post is wiped - moderation by all.
Also make it so only paid subscriptions can post or even have a reduced subscription just for BBS access that gives no game access - 15.95 for game and BBS, 6.95 for BBS only. When killed posts for a person hits XX then flag is shown on stats and Skuzmeister can decide on course of action - no live moderation by paid staff required.

The talk won't go away it will just move.

MHO

Sparks

Sandman · « **Reply #274 on:** June 14, 2005, 06:42:56 PM »

Adding a kill button is a cool idea, but I doubt that HTC is going to expend any effort to modify vBulletin.

There are a number of posts about limiting access to subscribers. This seems to assume that non-subscribers are a bigger problem on this BBS than subscribers. Any data to prove this point?

Second, I'm not an expert on web based bulletin boards, but I have played with a few of them and as near as I can tell there isn't a fast and easy way to compare a subscriber roster to the member list and then exclude non-members. Unless there is software solution for this, it will require a warm body. Hell, even if there is a software solution, it's going to take some time to verify. Many (if not most) of the members here on the BBS have different handles in the game and they also may not have used the same email address in both locations (among other things).

Good luck.

airbumba · « **Reply #275 on:** June 14, 2005, 06:57:09 PM »

My idea of the "strike poster" button, shouldn't take much modifying. i'm no programmer, but I think the Private messaging feature could be modified for this purpose. As well, since the BBS keeps track of all posters in any given thread, you could easily see if someone is abusing the "strike poster' button by his voting history.

I mean, everyone said, let us moderate ourselves, this way everyone is a moderator and evryone is resposible of the final content in the O club.

We need sumtin, or it's gone.

Nash · « **Reply #276 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:26:24 PM »

I think this debate is missing the mark.

We've been given a time out. Lets use it wisely.

This is about more than any free speech issues, or business considerations, or off topics posts spilling over into other places, or matters of appearance, or political sensitivities, or registered vs unregistered posters, or anything like that.

If we care about the OC, a good starting point is to ask ourselves why. And I don't mean "It's goofy fun with a cup of coffee" why, but really... why is the OC important?

When it comes right down to it, the OC's demise is because we didn't recognize, or we forgot, the answer to that question - long before it ever came to this extreme.

Let me give you my perspective.

That is, the OC is invaluable because of the community, the folklore, and the history of flight sims.

Period.

In the flight-sim world, that's not a small thing. It needs to be considered, especially now when it is threatened.

The flight-sim community goes back far longer than any other on-line community's history. 15+ years. 1989. The guys at HTC were there at the start. AW, WB, AH. Through it all - through all those years.

As players, active membership will abate and re-emerge. Folks will take an active role, then recede, only to show up again a few years later.

For many of us, the community is the string that connects us, as it has done for more than a decade. And we happen to connect through the OC.

Take the Voss thread, for an obvious example. All of a sudden these, lets be frank, legendary people.... people who most of us had long thought had vanished completely, reappeared. It was bigger than some old-timers merely showing up to dog-pile. Because it showed that despite their absence - they had never left. And they probably never will.

I don't envy HTC's job. Because unlike a company such as EA, they have a bigger responsibility than to just the bottom line. In a very real sense, they are the caretakers of our history. This rich community, our connection, these ties that bind. Yet in another sense, HTC's role is enviable, because no other company can boast this kind of community, this kind of history. Like Hotel California - people check out, but they never really leave.

So I guess this leads to finger pointing time. Why the failure of the OC? Why did it get so out of hand? What went wrong?

There's no shortage of targets. We can blame a highly charged political atmosphere. One-upmanship. The testing of boundaries. The complete lack of respect for those boundries.

That would be wrong. Because that's finger pointing at finger pointing. No. Ultimately, the blame is ours. Yours and mine. Us in this community.

And definitely not HTC's.

Because it's those of us who should have set an example, that didn't. It's those of us who should have said "dude - you are way out of line"- that didn't.

We appreciate what the OC means, yet we didn't defend it. And now it's gone.

And now those of us who are shocked by the removal of the OC need to ask ourselves why that happened. And what the OC really means. Why is it that we really care?

Once you figure that out, it would go a long way in appreciating what it does mean. It would go a long way in respecting and preserving what it actually offers.

But this is only the first step. Recognizing its importance. Understanding it. Respecting its place. And only then can we figure out how to preserve it.

I suggest that the OC remain closed until we do. I suggest that it remain closed until we - this community that it serves - figures out how to take care of it.

GreenCloud · « **Reply #277 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:41:56 PM »

i love PAYING COSTUMERS ONLY...just for O club

we may lose a few guys with good input....

but atleast would could hunt the hanoi down and kill him...in AH ; )

...

but you have to bring the o bak....i have a submarine thread that had names off books i still havent read

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #278 on:** June 14, 2005, 07:46:56 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by straffo
Give to all BBS member moderation right in the O'club.

According to Laz when all people have weapon all people are more polite , let see if it work IRL

From an entertainment standpoint its a no loose situation
You just know that no matter which way it went it would be funny as hell to watch

rpm · « **Reply #279 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:00:37 PM »

The ideal solution would be make the O'C liberals moderators. Nobody likes us anyway and we already know what's best for you.

AKS\/\/ulfe · « **Reply #280 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:17:32 PM »

The O'Club was crap. Lets face it. It had good threads, but they were few and far between. Most were crap, pure and simple.

Even the good threads had tards fighting back and forth. Doesn't matter, the tards found sides to pick and fought for it. Wrong or right, they kept at it until one gave up or it was locked.

But essence of the O'club is that it was a place to be a tard. You won't do that in the General Dis... wait... nevermind, it DOES happen in the General Discussion, but there it happens in topics that don't have anything to do with the game.

The one and only redeeming factor about the O'Club for HTC is that it keeps us tards, who haven't had subscriptions in a while, around to start an account again when we see something we like about AH2. Personally, my tarded self is waiting for something thats been said to come down the pipe. And I will wait.

BUT, I may not find out for long after its been released because I'd have very little reason to visit the forums here if there is no O'club.

In the end, the O'Club is for us tards that enjoyed, or still do enjoy, AH (well, for the most part I presume) and are waiting around for something to lure us back in. In the meantime, however, we give each other (cirumventing language filter) and shoot the (circumventing language filter) because its something to do. And we enjoy it, because afterall, we just a bunch of air combat gaming tards.

And if that doesn't bring a tear to your eye, well you suck.
-SW

Halo · « **Reply #281 on:** June 14, 2005, 08:19:53 PM »

Six pages of posts in one day. That ought to be an Aces High Bulletin Board record. If nothing else, it indicates a nerve has been hit.

Officers' Clubs or similar social/venting outlets, official or unofficial, are common to all vital organizations. And ... in all there are rules, the main one being Don't Antagonize the Management -- and the second, If You Do, Be Prepared To Go Elsewhere.

Too many people in the O'club forum have violated Rule No. 1.

Play like you're in the Aces High executive room. It's easy to imagine a discussion that might have reached the following conclusions:

(1) The O'club is taking up a disproportionate amount of time.

(2) Some of the postings could be grounds for legal action and thus expensive and counterproductive penalties either directly in the courts or indirectly by bad publicity and alienating current and potential customers.

(3) Loyal customers deserve a last chance to propose fixes to the O'club, but barring a miracle, there is no apparent satisfactory fix to the continuing trend of the O'club detracting from the game's primary focus and thus being detrimental to Aces High's long-term success.

(4) Few other forums anywhere, in Aces High or anywhere else on the Internet, allow the range of beliefs, attitudes, and opinions expressed in the Aces High O'club forum. Consequently, a main problem in deleting the O'club is that O'club postings undoubtedly will spring up in other Aces High forums, and thus could ultimately bring on the demise of the entire bulletin board.

(5) Free speech is a wonderful ideal, but it is only that -- an ideal. Inflammatory talk that offends community standards (i.e., world, national, Aces High, whatever) ultimately cannot be not tolerated (e.g., can't yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire). Similarly, personal insults and slander are not acceptable and increasingly require excessive company time to monitor and control.

I personally will greatly mourn any permanent loss of the Aces High O'club forum.

But if I were running Aces High, I would never have had the guts to offer the O'club forum in the first place. It's too risky. It's a miracle it lasted as long as it did.

Permanently deleting the O'club will disappoint many current members, but new members won't miss what they never had.

I want the O'club to continue, but I'll reluctantly understand if it doesn't.

Without the O'club, the Aces High community will not be the same. But it will be much more like most other communities that concentrate on their specialities and rarely invite or tolerate the candid and deep wide-ranging discussions that distinguished the Aces High Bulletin Board.

That will be a tremendous loss.

DREDIOCK · « **Reply #282 on:** June 14, 2005, 09:37:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by LePaul
As far as new moderators go...

2) Let HTC select their own and allow said persons to remain anonymous. This would do a lot to avoid bias, etc etc

Personally I think this is the best choice.

IF HTC goes around asking people then folks that may not want it might ..run off at the mouth about it (for lack of a better term) that they were asked

So rather then HTC just nominate someone I think that HTC should request that those that are interested in the duty Send them an Email stating as such and then they could pick whom they want out of the bunch. And reply with a pleasant "no thank you" for those they decide against.
Then it truly can remain anonymous.
And I think it SHOULD be anonymous

Obviously all Mod should have to work under some sort of rules and guidelines.
Remaining anonymous being one of them.

Others might include not being overzealous with their powers.(letting it get to your head) and abusing your position.

Violation of either should be subject to immediate and permanent loss of MOD status

Any mod will have to keep in mind that your not going to be able to please everyone. Some people will always find something to complain about.

But they cant be too permissive either.

It would be a delicate job to find the right balance. Not putting the kabash on every little thing that might bother someone yet not letting things get too out of hand either.

Since nobody can be monitor everything 24/7 Mods should also be required to notify each other of potential problem threads to specifically keep an eye on to make sure things dont get out of hand

Mods should have editing & thread killing powers only.
A mod could possibly recommend a banning or submit a poster for review to HTC but.
Any Banning should remain the sole power of Hitech,Skuzzy etc.
And even submitting a poster for such action should not be taken lightly or on a whim.

I dont think users should be limited only to paying customers.
IMO there are too many worthy posters that even though I may have strongly disagreed with them at times, deserve to be here. And do contribute to the forum.

Again IMO it makes poor business sense to make the boards exclusive to paying members only. The idea is to attract people so they might be interested in the game and not shut them out of an exclusive club.

Disclaimers might not be a bad idea in several forms.
A disclaimer for the board itself. With so many people from so many countries, widely varying cultures and backgrounds from literally all over the world it would be both impossible and foolish to think that everyone is going to be on the same page all the time. And quite honestly I think it would become pretty boring if they were.

Disclaimers used by the posters themselves such as "Warning not work safe" or "Warning contains disturbing images," , etc., for things such as links that probably wouldnt go over well in the workplace.

Not to say that would make it ok to post pornography. It still wouldn't be.
But there are some things that one might call "fringe". Not really kosher for the workplace but too good not to share.

This would also put the power of choice in the readers of the forum that there might be something there they may not wish to see and thus take away any complaint they may have about what they did see. If you dont like horror or gory movies you dont go see Friday the 13th then complain it was scary or gory.

It would also give these same people a legitimate complaint if a warning is not given.

This allows users a bit of lattitude(within reason) in their posts which is needed IMO
And also allows to not look at something they dont like if they choose. Which is also needed and makes it fair to everyone.

If a mod has any questions on such posts he/she should simply submit it to Skuzzy, Hitech, or Pyro for a final thumbs up/down.

On reading through this thread I've made a few observations.
Some that actually surprised me.
By and large the people that frequented the OClub want it to stick around even with it faults.
The (and Im using a word I normally dont like to use in reference to this game or boards) "Majority" of people that did frequent the boards were far less bothered or offended by and are far more tolerant of what was sometimes said to them then they often let on.
There are people here who on first look one would think are mortal enemies. Yet they truly like each other of not each others opinions.
Some but not all of the naysayers. That is those saying good riddance to the OClub probably wouldnt be happy no matter what way it was worked out even if total peace broke out and people all took a make love and not war stance.

The people that complain about the boards numerically are in a very small minority. Not that some of the complaints arent valid. Its just that there are so few who actually do.

Most people here really do want free speech to a certain extent. Even if they are vehemently against what is being said. But the majority of people agree there are certain lines that shouldn't be crossed.
Those lines are made pretty obvious. Not by any forum rules but by the users themselves as to what is tolerable and what isnt. though they sometimes dont voice it in a way that makes themselves look any better.

And not so suprising there are some, but really very few who will never learn no matter what. They seem to thrive on becoming a problem for everyone like a child that feels they are not getting enough attention.

Well, those are my suggestions,ideas,thoughts, observations & ramblings.
I am sure I could come up with more and probably spend a few days writing a bill of rights of sorts but I at some point tonight would like to actually play this game.
That point is now .
sorry for the wall of text
and for those that made it this far.
Thank you for donating the time you wont get back LOL

Sandman · « **Reply #283 on:** June 14, 2005, 09:42:08 PM »

We should become an anarcho-syndicalist commune and take it in turns to act as a sort of moderator for the week.

vorticon · « **Reply #284 on:** June 14, 2005, 09:48:51 PM »

"
(4) Few other forums anywhere, in Aces High or anywhere else on the Internet, allow the range of beliefs, attitudes, and opinions expressed in the Aces High O'club forum. Consequently, a main problem in deleting the O'club is that O'club postings undoubtedly will spring up in other Aces High forums, and thus could ultimately bring on the demise of the entire bulletin board. "

most forums ive been to allow the range of beleifs, its just that because of the global nature and interst of/in flight, few other boards HAVE the range of beleifs etc.