Author Topic: O'club discussion  (Read 12078 times)

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
O'club discussion
« Reply #120 on: June 16, 2005, 01:29:57 AM »
QITEOP doesn't mean 'do a crummy job', it means that 'Perfect is the worst enemy of good enough'.  

If keeping the O'Club requires that Hitech & friend have to INCREASE their day to day involvement, then it's probably going to surpass their internal profit/loss ledger for keeping it around.

Keep it simple.  Implement it fast.  Don't over-engineer the solution.  Pick some level heads, trust them to self balance, and sit back.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Hangtime

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10148
O'club discussion
« Reply #121 on: June 16, 2005, 01:38:20 AM »
Quote
If keeping the O'Club requires that Hitech & friend have to INCREASE their day to day involvement, then it's probably going to surpass their internal profit/loss ledger for keeping it around.


Enh? Previous, Skuzzy had to scan ALL threads. Now, he'll be scanning only 'up for review' threads. Less exposure. Less Time.

Disregarding our diffrences in business styles and views on quality control, what's the real beef, Chair?
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline -tronski-

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2825
O'club discussion
« Reply #122 on: June 16, 2005, 02:48:23 AM »
Any mod should be known, because imo - a moderator can only be completely impartial if their actions can be seen, and essentially judged by those actions. A completely transparent process.

The second problem imo. is what has already been stated: Posters post...moderators moderate. Skuzzy's authority, imo, is never in question not only because he is from the AH organisation - but also because he rarely posts - and almost hardly debates (from what I can see anyhow) "opinions". I personally felt Skuzzy was an extremely effective way of moderating the O'Club because he was never really involved in it.


However, I do agree most of the suggested moderators are good choices. Not because of what they post - but because of their reasoning I've felt has always been sound, even if I've disagreed with it.
Toad, Sandman, MT, Laz, Hangman, Dowding, Karnak, Gunslinger,and even that silly hatted drunken norweigen Nilsen would all get my vote if we were given one.

 Tronsky
« Last Edit: June 16, 2005, 02:52:24 AM by -tronski- »
God created Arrakis to train the faithful

Offline SaburoS

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2986
O'club discussion
« Reply #123 on: June 16, 2005, 04:00:44 AM »
Alphabetically: Charon, Dowding, MT, Nashwan, Nash, Nilsen, Sandman, Seagoon, SOB, & Toad are my first choices that come to mind.
There are others that I've missed, I'm sure but these gents come to mind at the moment.
I've never known any of them to "lose" it in an argument and get in petty personal attacks to those they've disagreed. I am sure that to a man, they will take the moderation duties to heart and treat it with all the impartiality and maturity needed. They have the even temperment needed for the position.
Men fear thought as they fear nothing else on earth -- more than ruin -- more even than death.... Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible, thought is merciless to privilege, established institutions, and comfortable habit. ... Bertrand Russell

Offline beet1e

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7848
O'club discussion
« Reply #124 on: June 16, 2005, 04:01:50 AM »
There would seem to be little point in nominating candidates, unless said nominees had expressed their willingness to act as moderators by throwing their hats into the ring.

The word “moderation” means the avoidance of extremes, but already in this first thread about moderator selection, there is a strong US bias amongst the names that have been mentioned thus far. In my view, that was one of the things that was wrong with this board in days gone by, and which led to jingoism in the post-911 era, with many heated exchanges and closed topics as the result.

Looking to its title, I would have thought this thread was to be a discussion about a process to decide upon new moderators. But with some nominees already indicating their acceptance of the role, it’s beginning to look as if this thread has become the process of selection, and that's no way to do it.

Some people have in the past made the chest thumping proclamation that “this is a US board”, only to be corrected by HTC and reminded that we are an international community, composed of people from perhaps as many as 40 different countries. Therefore, moderators should come from different parts of the world – not saying we need 40 though! To arrive at a balanced, ie “moderate” team of moderators, it would be wrong to have 90% of them from the same country without a secret ballot such as a pop-up poll in the game. (If that does indeed elect a panel composed 90% of a single nationality, then so be it) Otherwise the contest becomes based on “who shouts the loudest” – a bit like the “show of hands” strike votes held by British trade unions in the 1970s.

My comments are not borne of any malice towards America, or any of the people whose names have appeared thus far. But any student of Britain’s political history since 1997 up until 05/05/2005 will see that when one camp is heavily overrepresented, democracy ends and decisions are simply railroaded through. The key is balance, so…

My list – straffo, dowding, nilsen, nashwan – already mentioned. In addition, cpxxx. We need the land down under to be represented, so tronski and vulcan. To keep my list balanced ie moderate, which is what it’s all about, I’d nominate one further American who I believe would do a good job – DMF/Levi.

Offline Saintaw

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6692
      • My blog
O'club discussion
« Reply #125 on: June 16, 2005, 04:02:23 AM »
I have a problem with having people I "know" deciding what I'm saying is 'PC' or just not their taste.

My list:
Rolex
MiniD (does a good job at C6)
RTR
MT (or his wife)
Charon
As far as I'm concerned, there should be an Kangaroo, a Yuro and an asian added to that list.

Toad, Nash, Sandman etc... I'm sorry, but even if I read/enjoy most of your posts... I think you are far too much involved in this BBS to have deciding powers.



That is all I have to say. (And this is my 1st day of holliday... I wish I could get rid of that hangover)
Saw
Dirty, nasty furriner.

Offline lada

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1810
O'club discussion
« Reply #126 on: June 16, 2005, 04:52:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nilsen


-edit- I see ive been nominated by NUKE and Cyrano.. thx :) If more people think thats a good idea id give it a shot.


Yeeeeep... White sweeters for all moderators.
Nilsen could be fine.


Anyway i dont think that mods should be anonymous.
Just make sure, that PM are not forwarded to your email :)

Offline lada

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1810
O'club discussion
« Reply #127 on: June 16, 2005, 04:54:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
Enh? Previous, Skuzzy had to scan ALL threads.  


But now skuzzy will lose his overview in world politic and he wont be most educated man on the planet :D

Offline Sundowner

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1005
O'club discussion
« Reply #128 on: June 16, 2005, 05:05:20 AM »
Toad,

Read your post on what you think is cool/not cool in the forum.

Very level headed and consise.
The common sense approach provides instant credibility while the openess and candor closes the deal.

Thanks for a good post!

Regards
Sun
Freedom implies risk. Less freedom implies more risk.

Offline CavemanJ

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1008
O'club discussion
« Reply #129 on: June 16, 2005, 06:15:58 AM »
nominations... Toad, Sandman, Seagoon, and Nilsen when he's not tanked.  Gonna need more than that though.

Anonymous or not... I'd say not.  Stick the badges on thier shirts and give'em thier guns.

A private mod forum is a must have.  I was a mod on the granturismo.com forums for a couple years before the owner changed the site format, and we found a private forum to be a great tool.  Move threads for review, keep sticky threads about problem children, and we kept a "ban thead" where we'd list who was banned, what they were banned for, and when they were unbanned, just editing the posts as needed... made it easier to id habitual offenders.  If the board setup will allow it, set the private mod forum so that only the mods can see it, the rest of the board doesn't need to know if there's activity or not on the mod forum.

And the more the merrier.  Too few and you'll see mods start burning out and spending less and less time around.  Been there, done that.  And a clear list of guildlines about what's ok and what's not.  Toad's list in this thread seems a great one to start with and modify as needed.

The mods would have to be ready to be called out.  Some of the trolls are gonna do just that to see if they'll really lock'em down/delete etc.  First few weeks could be real interesting =)

Offline Torque

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2091
O'club discussion
« Reply #130 on: June 16, 2005, 06:27:05 AM »
have a left and right mod squad, say 2-4 people countering each other. they could each have a day to scan. being it's summer how would one or two people find the time.

what no momus yet, tards!

Offline Habu

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1905
O'club discussion
« Reply #131 on: June 16, 2005, 07:10:07 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shane
Lessee.. what would traits of a moderator be?

CONTEXT IS EVERYTHING....

1. Ability to distinguish between animosity and simple ragging (context is everything).

2. Ability to be impartial, tactful, diplomatic, even-handed and accept/tolerate differing points of views even if personally distasteful to the moderator.

3. Ability to identify trolls that are potentially explosive. Not all trolls are bad.

4. Posess both a sense of humor and propriety.

5. Possess a thick skin and not be vengeful/spiteful.

Anything else anyone can add?


I nominate Shane. From what he posted here I think he gets it.

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
O'club discussion
« Reply #132 on: June 16, 2005, 07:23:46 AM »
Some clarifications are in order.

I have long stopped reading every thread in this forum.  I scan the topics and that is it.  When I get an email complaining about a thread, then I act.

This has lead to the perception of my moderation being unbalanced or unfair to some.  As someone else said, "moderators moderate".  

To be a moderator you do not need thick skin.  You need to be able to dissassociate yourself with the content you are reviewing.
You need to not care about what others think of you.  It will get in the way.
I have said I really do not like this part of my job.  The reason I do not like it is, I feel it should not be needed.  Why is it so hard for some people to actually have 'rational' discussions?  Why does this forum need to have babysitters to watch over everyone?

Pyro touched on what the base issue or problem is here.  Trolls.  I have been saying and will continue to espouse, the more you feed them the bigger and uglier they get.
A troll is the desparate attempt of someone to get attention.  Once they get ANY attention, they will stay and continue to troll.  What would have been a driveby posting, turns into a new home for a troll.  How many of you actually recognize a troll?  How many times have you fed a troll?  Can you stop feeding them?

I visit a lot of boards and this one is one of the worst about people feeding trolls.  The feeders of trolls are just as harmful to the health of this forum (worse in some ways) as the troll is.
This is one thing I do not think can be moderated out of the forum.  It will take a culture change.  I think if that change can happen, then the forum will proabably survive and flourish.  If it does not happen, then the forum will probably die.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
O'club discussion
« Reply #133 on: June 16, 2005, 07:53:54 AM »
hang... you would make a better moderator than either me nash or nielsen.

I would not give up posting to be a moderator.

I would not like to see toad give up posting or seagoon or even MT or sandie...but..

I would also like to nominate mav and sob... I forgot that mav is retired and that sob is just useless to society.

I don't want to lose these guys to the boards is the problem...  maybe if they were not known (can't spell anonymous) they could still post?

If we get moderators who are wound too tight the emails to HTC will be even worse from the poor agrieved babies who weren't treated fairly.

lazs

Offline Nilsen

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18108
O'club discussion
« Reply #134 on: June 16, 2005, 08:09:28 AM »
Skuzz himself prolly has the best idea about who would be right for the "job".

He sais he doesnt hang around much, but I bet he has a general idea.

99% of the regulars here could prolly do it. (although it then is kinda strange that so many seem to violate the rules and feed trolls like skuzz said)

Anywho.. id be comfortable with any of you lot beeing our "nanny".

:)