Gay Marriage

[Jackal1]

Originally posted by Silat
IN the US the rightwing Christians want to force their anti gay beliefs on all of us.

 

  I don`t exactly know who the "rightwing Christians ' are, but if they are anti gay, then I`m all for them.
  I beleive you are about 180 out on this one.
  The Christians are coming! The Christians are coming!

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Silat
IN the US the rightwing Christians want to force their anti gay beliefs on all of us.

There must be a lot of right wing Christians, then, since hetero marriage proposals have been voted in with overwhelming victories in every single state they've been brought to the voters.

[midnight Target]

In New York last week there was a Billy Graham Crusade and a Gay Rights Parade...



Which one wanted to indoctrinate the attendees to their lifestyle?

[Toad]

Which one forced people to attend?

[Elfie]

Originally posted by Jackal1
 

  I don`t exactly know who the "rightwing Christians ' are, but if they are anti gay, then I`m all for them.
  I beleive you are about 180 out on this one.
  The Christians are coming! The Christians are coming!

Be nice Jackal

[Elfie]

Which one wanted to indoctrinate the attendees to their lifestyle?

My guess (just offhand lol) would be the Billy Graham Crusade. Although I would not use the word indoctrinate. At those crusades there is a message presented and at the end an invitation is extended to those who feel compelled to become a believer.

Which one forced people to attend?

I would say niether, you attend a gay rights parade by choice, and those who attended Billy Graham's crusade also attended by choice, including those who converted to Christianity.

[Toad]

Exactly.

And if you attend by choice........ it's hard to call it indoctrination isn't it?

[Thrawn]

I don't see that choice is pertinent


indoctrination

n : teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically

[Holden McGroin]

But it's the indoctrinee who chooses to accept the teachings of the doctrine.  If the indoctrinator indoctrinates the indoctranee by force, that's one thing.  But if the indocranee willingly accepts the doctrine of the indoctrinator, and even overtly asks for the indoctronation by going to the arrangeed indoctrination site , then perhaps it is not indoctrination at all.  Unless prescribed by a doctor.

[Toad]

The Doctor is in.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Martlet
There must be a lot of right wing Christians, then, since hetero marriage proposals have been voted in with overwhelming victories in every single state they've been brought to the voters.

It is not about what the MAJORITY wants. Its about equal freedoms for all Americans.
If you guys dont see that then I weep for America.

[Martlet]

Originally posted by Silat
It is not about what the MAJORITY wants. Its about equal freedoms for all Americans.
If you guys dont see that then I weep for America.

No, it's about equal RIGHTS for all Americans.  

If you guys don't see that then I weep for all America.

[Seagoon]

Hi Crowmaw:

Originally posted by crowMAW
BTW, relating to Canada's hate crime statute...Thrawn is correct.  I hope you are not preaching or promoting violence to counter what you perceive as homosexual activism (makes me wonder WWJD?).

Crow,

In a quick review of my sermons, I can only find one where I responded directly to the subject of gay marriage. Rather than defending myself on the issue, I'll simply print the application portion of the sermon covering what I "preached and promoted" to counter homosexual activism here, and let you decide whether you think this is the promotion of violence. It would however still land me in trouble if preached in Sweden.

[I apologize in advance for the grammar and the simple conversational rather than written style - these are my spoken sermon notes which are only the shell of my actual sermon, I've added back some things that I recall saying extempore to make the sentences readable. My advice is that everyone not interested stop reading here as the following is not likely to be popular with anyone here...]

Portion of Sermon Notes (9/30/2004)

"III) The way the church should respond to the legalization of Gay Marriage

Now how should you, the church, the body of Christ, respond to this crisis in the culture? Should the church create and endorse "centers for reclaiming America" and vigorously pursue a legislative agenda? Should we in essence become the flip-side of the liberal church and while they pursue a liberal political agenda, we strive for a conservative one?

Now I know what I am about to say is going to be deeply unpopular in certain circles, but it is my conviction that this approach is simply not biblical. The church was not commissioned to be a wing of any political party and to make it such is go against the great commission and fall into the great failing of becoming Christianity And… Christianity and anything else, as C.S. Lewis rightly pointed out, is not Christianity.

I mean think of it, to listen to those who do believe the church should be pursuing a legislative agenda you would expect to find Paul's Epistle to Caesar somewhere in the New Testament documents, containing his complaints about the immoral practices of the Roman Culture and demanding legislative action. You could add to that, the epistle of the Corinthian Church to the city counsel, and 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Lawyers.

But what instead did the church do? They understood that their commission was to preach the Gospel, to make and baptize disciples of all the nations, and to teach those disciples to observe Christ's commands. They understood that the Christian faith was not tied to any one culture or nation, but that rather they were a pilgrim people and that ultimately their citizenship was above:

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, (Phil. 3:20)

They also understood that "the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be."

And that therefore our agenda should be to advance the gospel, not to vainly attempt to subdue men who are by nature rebels, by the word of God.

Our route-map in these matters is actually plotted out for us in Paul's words to the Corinthian church that we read in the beginning (1 Cor 5:1-13).

The city of Corinth, was famous for its sexual immorality, they not only had widespread homosexuality but also institutionalized temple prostitution. Sexual immorality was the norm, and the verb to "Corinthianize" actually became a by-word in the empire for becoming depraved. The thing is though, that in the midst of this Paul is shocked that there is sexual immorality in the church. Why is that? Because he understood, as I think we have forgotten, that the church and the world are fundamentally different and for the most part opposing institutions.

In one sense, it didn't matter what the culture of Corinth was doing, the church must remain true to the word of God, regardless. They must not become the compromising church, but even though all around is dark still remain "the light of the world. A city set on a hill that cannot be hidden." To paraphrase Christ's words to his followers in Matt. 5:14.

Paul at several points in 1 Cor. 5 assumes that those outside the church will be immoral, that is the nature of the world, in order to escape immorality altogether one would as he says in verse 10 go out of the world – and he is not there endorsing the Amish approach. The church is called to be in but not of the world. But Paul condemns them in particular for actually acting worse than the common morals of the Corinthians in that even the fallen Corinthian worldlings were ashamed of incest such as had been reported in the church!

Therefore he counsels them as a people who have been called out of the world, to purge out the leven and return this sinner to the place that by his actions he shows he belongs – the world, there to be taught repentance, and godwilling to be restored to fellowship.

This is the case always and everywhere, Paul addresses the body of Christ as a people separated from the world. The idea of a "Christian Nation" is in essence an oxymoron. The church is composed of people of every race and tongue. Since the dissolution of Israel there has never been a covenanted nation where the boundaries of church and state where the same, and we make a serious mistake when the church attempts to take over the proper duties of the civil magistrate and vice versa, they are separate spheres called to separate functions.

Now I know that those who do uphold the idea of "Christian America" routinely quote God's words to Solomon at the founding of the temple in Jerusalem: 2 Chr 7:14 "if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

But who is this addressed to? The world, NO the church! This is addressed to the people of God, NOT AMERICA or any other nation since the dissolution of Israel. Is America called by God's name? No! It is entirely possible, and indeed likely, that America will go the way of every worldly empire – especially given our increasing willingness to ignore and go against the 1st use of the Moral Law, the USUS POLITICUS informing our own civil laws. But you know that the kingdom of God will continue on forever. Regardless of what happens to the nation of America, the church will still be here on earth when her Lord comes for her.
 
What then should we do? Give up? HARDLY!

1) Prophetic Witness of the Church to the culture – we must declare the will and law of God boldly regardless of the cost. I am also not saying that you should not exercise your calling as voters and countrymen to affect the laws of this nation for good – that is right use of your national citizenship.

But if we are to declare the will of God, we must ourselves shine as examples or we will simply be those despised people with logs sticking out of our own eyes that Bob McKelvey warned of:

On Marriage – how can we defend it in light of The scandal of the evangelical witness – our divorce rates are higher! We are in danger of falling into the Corinthian dilemma of being worse than the culture.

Often because of our own moral failures the church's opposition to sins like homosexuality just looks like naked hypocrisy on our part - We are outraged only by the sins we are unlikely to commit:
Where was the outrage when no-fault divorce was introduced? Or when Adultery was de-criminalized?

As Bill Smith noted the church was outraged when the Commandments were removed from the courthouse, but we've been ejecting them from the churches for decades! These days we seem to have become so practically antinomian that the only sins we aren't committing or endorsing or crafting a theology to advance are the ones we have no compulsion to commit!

We must resist the urge to indulge in cheerleading rah-rah sessions where we condemn the sins of those outside the church – look at the PAULINE EPISTLES – Paul's convicting emphasis is primarily directed at those within the church.

2) We must create a church that is not tied to or compromised with the culture. The Lukewarm go-along-to get along Laodicean church must not be ours. We will inevitably fall with them if that is the case, Christ will spit us out of his mouth.

3) We must seek to advance the kingdom by boldly proclaiming the gospel
Although he preached at the Aeropagus in Athens, a city riddled with Homosexuality and licentiousness, he did not preach the need for legislation defending the Christian view of marriage, Paul simply preached the gospel calling for all men to repent and believe.

You must do likewise, remembering that you yourselves were also once worldlings and that the change in you came via the grace of God alone!

 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Brothers and Sisters go into the world preaching the good news of Jesus Christ and bringing the harvest into the kingdom. Then and only then when real heart change is being affected, and new life in Christ begun, will the church have given the correct response to what our savior told us is a lost and dying world in need of light and life."

- SEAGOON

[Nash]

Good man.

[Silat]

Originally posted by Seagoon


 1 Cor. 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.[/- SEAGOON

Seagoon Im incredulous that you would post this as from the  bible that most of us use. This is the international version of the bible.The International Bible Society (IBS) was founded in 1809.Their translation added many things that were not there before the editing.
 They edited things to suit their particular agenda.

Check your parents bibles. You wont find the word homosexual in it anywhere.

Cor 6:9 Paul lists a many activities that will prevent people from inheriting the Kingdom of God. One has been variously translated as effeminate, homosexuals, or sexual perverts. The original Greek text reads malakoi arsenokoitai. The first word means soft; the meaning of the second word has been lost. It was once used to refer to a male temple prostitute.
The early Church interpreted the phrase as referring to people of soft morals; i.e. unethical. From the time of Martin Luther, it was interpreted as referring to masturbation . More recently, it has been translated as referring to homosexuals . Each Translator seem to take whatever activity that their society particularly disapproves of and use it in this verse.

Here is the actual quote from the bible that most of us have seen and were raised on, and the word homosexual isnt there.

 

"Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. "


King James:
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,