Spit9 vs P38L Critiques Pls

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by JB42
Gee another example of Uber Allied FMs. What a surprise.

Your knowledge just knows no bounds.

[Balsy]

Originally posted by Raptor01
In H2H an arena host once turned on an upward 127mph wind and everyone went up. The P38L is my main ride and of course that is what I was in, by the time I get to 80k (thats right) the host cut off the wind, I decided I would experiment with the 38 and dove straight down, full throttle, no dive flaps. It kind of leveled off speed around 600mph, around 7k I decided it's time to get out of the dive and barely tapped up the trim and it came out of the dive at about 4k.

Gee and Raptor, your not even a rook???

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Happy1
I'm tooling around happily at 12 angels, with 2 scalps 2b painted
on my a/c when I spot a P38L @ 14 angels, AHAAAAAHHHHH another quick kill 4 me, I nose dwn to gather speed, trim a/c to
Combat Trim & off I go zooming up to merge (destroy .. lol.. total
confidence).  The 38 sees me & is diving on me .. HOOOO HAAAA!

As we merge I cut throttle & reverse on the 38 accelerating on his 6, distance is 800yds.   I c a flashing under his wings, he's using his flaps, I hit UP trim & we r in Immelman Loop... trim up..
unable to get guns on him  ...   so close yet so far, after the 4th
loop he's looping endlessly whilst my E is dangerously low ... the
38 driver's good, now I'm looking for ways to get AWAY from him!

At the bottom of this loop I accelerate, hit UP trim many times, my
finger's sore, I glance back & he's 400 yds away from me with MGs
flying past me .... drat!! Forgot about the 38's 'Dive Brakes'  
he outmaneuvered me, he's outflown me, his 38L dirty tricks are
working like a charm.

I'm in trouble plenty...broke to the right...darn...38s have no torque & then I hear ping ... ping .... BOOOOOMM!   I'm back in the tower & I get a from the 38 which I return ... unfortunate-
ly I forgot to film this fight     The 38 driver was very good

How would the experienced Spit9 drivers & P38 drivers handle such a situation, what tactics would the spit9 drivers utilize ?? Likewise the 38 fliers? How would u handle the scenario in a different manner.

Recommendations/suggestions/critiques/ are invited ...help me!

Cheers,

Happy1  

From your description, there is no reason that 38 should have survived the merge.  You must have made some big mistakes to let him on your six.  This is just from him being nose down and you nose up on the merge.  Then you are on his six in a Spit.  And then some comments about you cutting throtle but excelerating on his six and plaing with your trim way too much

Who was the 38 pilot, cause that could explain why you died.

[Pooface]

lol, by that description id say pellik

[Flyboy]

the spit9 is a better plane then the p38.. dont mind the p38 seeniesm thats a fact.

if you got shot down its because of your own mistake.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Pooface
lol, by that description id say pellik

There are a couple out there that you could not fight against them even in an F16, but it has nothing to do with the plane.

[Furball]

sounds to me like you were too busy playing with your trim to concentrate on killing him.

dont think so much.

[ghi]

Originally posted by dedalos
There are a couple out there that you could not fight against them even in an F16, but it has nothing to do with the plane.

 Few months ago, on Baltic map, was a huge knight mission 30-40 planes,at our base close to HQ, i upped Me163, went there fast and nailed some C47s,
 There were only 2 survievers: ManeTMP and XtremeJ in P38s vs 30-40 knight planes all over the base:  
i run out of fuel, and upped again , by the time i got there were only few enemy left , this 2 guys killed them all, i never seen something like that
   ManeTMP and XJ killed all frikin huge mission,

 They landed 14 and 15 kills=29 (unlucky punks)

[jaxxo]

get some seperation and and keep reversing on him keeping spacing good..1.2 to1.4     keep your turns semiflat..38s love it when you try and vert fight them. if all goes well he will lose e and nose down to gain speed..try and close the gap with your acceleration and catch him on the initial climb when he starts to go up again..you should beat him in the first part of the climb....if this doesnt work get out before you lose all your e..rinse repeat.  probabaly not textbook but seems to work good for me.

[SuperDud]

Just shud up and PWN!@

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Ack-Ack
In AW, the Spitfire Mk IX was way over modeled and it could out climb and out run the P-38Jat all altitudes.  So it was a common Spitfire tactic for them to use a spiral climb against a P-38Jsince the P-38J as under and in some parts incorrectly modeled (AW's P-38J had dive brakes instead of dive flaps).


ack-ack

That also might have had something to do with the AW Spitfire Mk IX being powered by a Merlin 66, and maybe at +25lbs boost, no?

Or do you actually think AH's 1942, +15lbs boost Merlin 61 powered Spitfire Mk IX is representative?  If so you need to read up on Spitfires a little bit.  They weren't nearly as crappy as AH makes them out to be.

[lasersailor184]

Really?  Anytime I get ANY p38 to 451, my wings come off.

And that's not pulling any maneuvers, no g's.  Just straight flight.

[humble]

A couple of things dont "add up"....as you merge you "reverse"...I'd assume that your simply pulling up and over since you were nose up thru the merge...but thats not really clear...then your "flashing under" is wings...now if he pulled up thru his merge you have a plane form shot...

The only way for this all to happen is if he flew an angles opener from a high alt and got you to overshoot on his reverse back into you...but it sounds like you feel your almost at guns solution after that....

Without a clip to look at all I can say is it sounds like you fought the worst possible fight for the match up...assuming the "right choice" was the reverse...you either blew the shot or he was going all angles and denied you...to "chase him" was wrong...roll 90 away and extend out...if he's slow you can easily go up for the high ground...but letting him get into the meat of his flaps in a looping fight is a sure loser. Your other option was simply to go high off his "poor" merge and see how it plays out.

I'm guessing the 38 driver "slow merged" you figuring he'd be able to use your speed e retention against you then simply locked on to his angles gains and wore you down.

From your description of the merge you should have had him cold on the reverse given the fact that you "won" the merge...or did you? If he was already pulling back up into you and you "flashed under him" on the "remerge....then he actually had you in a vertical scissors...which you lose. About only time that "winning merge" is a loser I know off...if you get reversed like that you need to deny the scissors by diving on out of dodge and realize you've got a stud in the other plane...

[slimm50]

This discussion reminds me of something I read in Bob Hoover's autobio "Forever Flying".  During his stay in Engalnd in the Big War, Hoover was challenged to a "duel" by a smart-assed P-38 pilot. Bob climbed in his Spit (I forget the model #). The two agreed to 1 head-on pass, then it was no-holds-barred. Hoover ate the other guys lunch, needless to say. But, that was Bob Hoover. He coulda then taken the P-38 and spanked the Spit driver.

[slimm50]

Happy1, in hind-sight, what about continuing your initial climb thereby putting yourself in the better position to try to rope/cherrypick  the P-38 at your leisure. Instead of reversing right away to follow him, as you did. Anyone want to tell me why that wouldn't work out?