Author Topic: Burning the US Flag  (Read 1028 times)

Offline Gunthr

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Burning the US Flag
« on: June 29, 2005, 10:51:01 AM »
Do you think we should allow people to burn the US Flag? Do you think the issue is too trivial to criminalize this act with an amendment to the Constitution?

I kind of think that we should allow people to burn the flag, but I'm not totally comfortable with this. I would like to hear some arguments...


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Offline Charon

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2005, 11:22:24 AM »
I think we should allow it as a vital expression of the 1st amendment. The flag is a symbol, an emotional one for sure (as is the case with most flags) but it stands for a country that is great because of the rights that are set forth in the Constitution. The same constitution you swear to uphold in your enlistment oath (notice the absence of the flag):

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I, (name), do solemly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed overme, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


Personally, I don't think there has been a valid flag burning issue in my lifetime, and I hope there never is one. While some events have been disagreeable to portions of the population, they have typically not strayed outside of the bounds of legal government. At most flying the flag upside down or burning an effigy of a political opponent would be appropriate, IMO. But, there are idiots everywhere, and once or twice a year some idiot who probably couldn't argue his or her point past a few poorly understood slogans, decides to "make a statement." Usually in order to get laid, IMO. But, the right to this form of expression stands as a symbol to the world that the day a true patriot might be willing burn a flag in protest is still a long way off. I wonder if any of our founding fathers burned an English flag back in the day.

However, since it pisses us off (myself included), we once again contemplate trashing a fundamental right of expression, something that sets America apart from so many countries in the world. All because of a few idiots who would be better off ignored.

Charon
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 11:44:11 AM by Charon »

Offline lasersailor184

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2005, 11:24:05 AM »
Fine, they can use their "freedom of speach" to burn a flag.  I'm going to use mine to "Physically defend" the flag.  

I'll go in swinging and get the flag out.
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8.) Lasersailor 73 "Will lead the impending revolution from his keyboard"

Offline Charon

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2005, 11:26:04 AM »
See rule # 4
« Last Edit: June 29, 2005, 11:45:17 AM by MP5 »

Offline Gato

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2005, 11:26:35 AM »
This is not a simple subject!  I will try to be brief with this so I can come back with more later.There are two sides of this to look at.  
The first side is: The flag is the symbol of the nation and should be honored as such.  Disrepect to the flag is disrepect and a slap in the face to all the people in the nation.
Second: In a nation who values personal freedoms such as the freedom of speech and the right to dramatize their displeasure in a public forum can and should have the right to burn or display the flag in any way they feel.
While I am 100% against burning our flag, I am also 100% for our rights.
What we need is a standard set of rules governing the way and manner the flag should be displayed or used in demonstration.  The military has these rules, but for some reason they do not extend to the civilian population.

Offline SOB

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2005, 11:28:03 AM »
Yes, you should be allowed to burn the flag, provided you're following other laws regulating burning things.  We should also be allowed to burn the paychecks of the members of Congress for wasting time on such pointless garbage.

Whenever I see someone burn the flag, whatever it is they're protesting for immediately takes a credibility hit in my eyes, and it's the same for most of the people I know.  So, if that's something you wanna do, go for it.
Three Times One Minus One.  Dayum!

Offline Nilsen

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2005, 11:33:08 AM »
You are allowed to burn the flag here, if you separate the colours and burn them individualy.

I had to do it twice when i was in the navy. once because it was old and worn and was to be disgarded, and the second time because I dropped it on the ground.

Civilians doesnt make that much fuss over it if they drop it, but some old people that remeber the war do.

Offline Charon

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2005, 11:41:38 AM »
Quote
Whenever I see someone burn the flag, whatever it is they're protesting for immediately takes a credibility hit in my eyes, and it's the same for most of the people I know. So, if that's something you wanna do, go for it.


Good point SOB. Most of the time though, you stick a microphone in front of one of them and they generate the same  result :)

"All war is bad!" "Really, all wars?" "All war is Bad!"  Yeah, unless some foreign thugs are about to kick in the door, kill you and your parents and gang rape your sister. Then, I guess, fighting that defensive, just war ain't so bad...

Charon

Offline Gato

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2005, 11:43:01 AM »
Be very care on what you burn - the EPA will get on you and make you pay!

Offline Gato

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2005, 11:51:44 AM »
You know, if you think about it - We play a sim which is set in the 1930 - 1940's.  What do you think would have happened to anyone burning a flag then?  The thought would not have even crossed their minds to do such a thing, but if it did.....

Offline Yeager

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2005, 12:47:02 PM »
Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Robert Kennedy in a physical display of political expression (burning is a physical event), why it was not protected under the 1st amendment is anybodys guess.
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline Charon

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2005, 01:05:57 PM »
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Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Robert Kennedy in a physical display of political expression (burning is a physical event), why it was not protected under the 1st amendment is anybodys guess.


My guess would be the fact that he committed murder. But you're right. The two are so similar it is confusing.

Charon

Offline Gato

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2005, 01:31:20 PM »
So how would they handle it if they burnt a flag while it was draped over someone?  Murder or 1st amendment right?

Offline Sandman

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Burning the US Flag
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2005, 01:54:50 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Yeager
Sirhan Sirhan assassinated Robert Kennedy in a physical display of political expression (burning is a physical event), why it was not protected under the 1st amendment is anybodys guess.


This just in... Murder is a crime.
sand

Offline Ripsnort

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Re: Burning the US Flag
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2005, 01:59:33 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Gunthr
Do you think we should allow people to burn the US Flag? Do you think the issue is too trivial to criminalize this act with an amendment to the Constitution?

I kind of think that we should allow people to burn the flag, but I'm not totally comfortable with this. I would like to hear some arguments...


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I think one should be able to express their freedom of speech, even if it means burning a flag. However, if they decide to try to express their 1st amendment on my property, I will excercise my 2nd amendment on them.