P47N Perk Debate

[Kweassa]

But that's just sad Kev.. perked at F4U-4 or Spit14 prices.

 

 IMO the P-47N should be perked at 20. And with its introduction the Spit14 and F4U-4 should subsequentially brought down to 20, the Ta152H price halved to 10, and the Tempest price at 50.

[Wilbus]

I should be perked, cheap though, bout 20. Ta152 perk price removed, spit 14 and F4u down to 15-20.

Tempest same. 262 same.

Jugs have an exelent turn performance in AH if you use it right (flaps), sure it can't compete with a spit but only an idiot would compare a Jug and a Spit in sustained turning performance, two totally different type of planes and also, in AH, very different time for the models (1942 spit vs 1944 Jug).

The P47 will outturn most E fighters if flown the right way, as will the Pony all thanks to their combat flaps.

I could agree on seeing it unperked the first week or so, np, it may be heavy but most people will fly it with 50% fuel, even I will fly it with 50% or 75% and I usually take 100% and DT in all planes. It has just got too much fuel, no need for it most of the time.

Problem is probarly not its performance but rather that if it remains unperked, no other Jug would be flown (or atleast they'd be flown very very little).

[Kweassa]

Hmm..

 How about not perked for two months?

 IMO, the first month of introduction is always sees boost in usage until the merit of being a new plane wears off.

 So, I think the stats of the second month after introduction should give us some idea how it fares inside MA conditions.

[Midnight]

Originally posted by Kweassa
What happens is.

 You approach a P-47 in a 109 from his six at about 800 yards. He starts turning to his left.

 You decide to follow him, chop throttle, kick rudder, and turn.  The P-47 drops a notch of flaps and starts entering the super-tight turn zone.

 By the time you finally slow up enough to use your own flaps, the 109 is no longer at the P-47's six O'c. It becomes a pure turn contest where both contestants start out at a non-advantaged state.

 You can try to maintain the "best turn rate", but the P-47 will still turn as tight as possible, What's gonna happen?

 Well, the P-47 will gain on your six, since he is turning so tightly, and get a shooting solution. If both planes were not armed at all, and they would just turn all day, eventually the 109 sticking to its 'maximum turn rate' will gain the upperhand after many turns. But during combat, with armed planes, just sticking to a max turn rate speed is not gonna work.

Wow.. don't you think that is a little over simplified? Maybe a total newb would just continue this tail chasing scenario, but any pilot who knows something about these two planes would use the 109s climbing ability and go UP rather than trying to hang on a flat turn. A P47 that goes into this type of turn with flaps extended is going to run out of options quickly, giving the 109 plenty of oppurtunity to come back around for a different attack.

I don't see how a P47 should be perked in the MA. It may have some turning ability, which might help some in a 1-v-1 fight, but how often does that happen in the MA? The 47s are just too heavy, climb too slow and accelerate too slowly to be considered a big enough threat to perk.

[Kev367th]

Originally posted by Kweassa
But that's just sad Kev.. perked at F4U-4 or Spit14 prices.

 

 IMO the P-47N should be perked at 20. And with its introduction the Spit14 and F4U-4 should subsequentially brought down to 20, the Ta152H price halved to 10, and the Tempest price at 50.

Sad or not, thats the truth of it Kweassa.

[Kweassa]

Well. I admit it is simplified Midnight.

 I'm not saying there aren't any methods the 109 can use. Ofcourse, it has its own set of advantages which can be utilized to the fullest.

 I'm just saying what happens in a pure flat-turn contest. There are many resources or portrayals of the P-47 as being cumbersome, immobile, and brick of a turner.. and clearly, this is not the case in Aces High.

 I'm not saying its right or wrong. Frankly I have no idea. (Well, maybe some idea, but just a personal thing)

 I'm just mentioning that the Aces High portrayal of the P-47, is not what one would expect It is not a bad turner at all, but a rather good turner in fact!

[Brooke]

I think that the P-47D has the worst turning performance of any prop-driven fighter.  Maybe the P-47N is better -- we'll see.

[storch]

It's an allied therefore in this game it will perform brilliantly, what else is new?

[Brooke]

Originally posted by storch
It's an allied therefore in this game it will perform brilliantly, what else is new?

You don't think the FW 190's, 109G-10's, N1K2's, and Ki-84's perform brilliantly?

I suspect HTC models every aircraft as accurately as it can, fitting the best data it can get a hold of, which probably is actual flight-test data.  I very much doubt they have an agenda to bias the performance of allied vs. axis aircraft.

[TexMurphy]

I totally agree, week 1 we will see alot of P47s.

BUT we will see even more remade ponies.

Still though jug numbers will be up.

But they will drop.

The N wount be a main stream plane. Why? While the jugs do turn better then one would expect it takes alot of skill and alot of patience to fly one well.

You have to use your flaps correctly (sorry dont mean to be arrogant but 50% of the pilots have no clue on flaps) and use your rudder alot. You have to use your ACMs to their full potential more then in any other plane due to its bus like abilities.

The spit, lala and nikki crowed will never break away from their rides to fly a jug over an extended period of time.

Jugs, in avg Joes hands, are jabo planes.

Tex

[Pooface]

I agree with ALL of you. youve each made great points. but firstly, kweassa, you tested the d11, which we all know is slightly better in combat. second, the n, in all the reports i read is slower on the deck then lalas and 109g10's, and a number of others, aswell as having fuel tanks in the wings. all the reports i read say that this made it unstable in low speed turns (u know what its like turning a d40 with the big eggs on the wings). well just imagine that but with MORE weight. now dont get me wrong, ure right, the n is gonna get lots more use than any other 47, so it will need a perk price, but i suggest a very light one. possibly 10, and bring some of the perk prices down a little bit (spit14 and 152 because we all know they suck on the deck) agreed perk is needed, but i hope it will be less than the c-hog, coz its heavier, and doesnt have the same turn ability, and hasnt got a heavy cannon loadout.

all for your suggestions. what does anyone think of the perk price of 10???

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Interesting thought I get from this:"we HAVE to perk the P-47N or no one fly the rest of the P-47s"? You are kidding, right? Now we perk planes to FORCE people to fly lesser versions?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Interesting thought I get from this:"we HAVE to perk the P-47N or no one fly the rest of the P-47s"? You are kidding, right? Now we perk planes to FORCE people to fly lesser versions?

I only fly the Spit V because they perked the Spit XIV.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Wilbus]

Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Interesting thought I get from this:"we HAVE to perk the P-47N or no one fly the rest of the P-47s"? You are kidding, right? Now we perk planes to FORCE people to fly lesser versions?

Can't seem to find whoever wrote your quote Savage but this is the way it's been more or less all along, combined with other factors. The P47-N will most likely need to be perked, one reason may be to force people to fly lesser planes, like it or not it's up to you.

[DipStick]

Perk a jug?