Spit and 109 Update

[Seeker]

Originally posted by Pooface
bubble canopy and more power than the 9, also had option for clipped wings

But don't those points; bubble canopy and clipped wings apply to the IX?

[Seeker]

1944-1945: Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe, +25lbs boost (clipped wing. This would be the ultimate free Spitfire)

Would it? If this is indeed a Packard built Merlin; wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a Griffon type to out perfom it?

Or is that taken account of with: "This would be the ultimate _free_ Spitfire"?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Seeker
1944-1945: Spitfire LF.Mk XVIe, +25lbs boost (clipped wing. This would be the ultimate free Spitfire)

Would it? If this is indeed a Packard built Merlin; wouldn't it be reasonable to expect a Griffon type to out perfom it?

Or is that taken account of with: "This would be the ultimate _free_ Spitfire"?

That is in acount of the "free" part.  The ultimate Spitfire would be the perked Mk XIV at +21lbs boost.

[TracerX]

Originally posted by Pooface
109's

109e4
109f4
109g2
109g6
NEW, 109g14
109g10 - we all know its the best buff hunter in the game, but people use it as a fighter, and run coz it cant turn. we could reduce this by changing the eny.
NEW, 109k4

anyone elses thoughts. (sorry, i dont know much about the 109's )

From what I have read, the AH109G-10 is about the same as the 109G14 and 109K4.  What would the G14 and the K4 add that the G10 does not have.  If I remember right, the G10 is a retrofitted 109 with the K4 engine.  Lighter airframe, bigger engine.  Supposed to be better than the K4 in many ways although structurally less sound than the K4.  I dont see any reason for these other models, and I am a fan of the 109.

[Fruda]

The problem is that our G-10 is a bastardised 109. It's a cross between the *real* G-10 and the K-4.

The 109G-14 is basically a G-6 with better engine power. Same guns and armament package, but the added engine power makes it that much better.

[Wotan]

The G-14 is not like a G-10 performance wise.

The G-14 would be more like a G-6 on mil power and have the addition of MW-50 (faster w/emergency power below FTH)

The G-10 we have in AH is really a K-4 with the option of having 2cm cannon.

HT (or Pyro) said as much.

The G-10 and K-4 have a larger supercharger (taken or modified from the DB 603). The G-10 would be faster at all altitudes and considerably faster up high.

What the G-14 would do is fill the gap between the G-10/K-4 hybrid and the G-6 we have now.

The G-6 in AH has a max speed speed of  around 385 mph at 22k FT.

The G-10 is 452 mph at the same altitude.

The G-14 would do around 410mph at 20k feet.

Below 20K feet though the G-14's speed advantage will be much greater then the current G-6 on emergency power:

AH G-6 @ SL: 338mph

G-14 @ SL: 355mph

AH G-10 @ SL: 370mph

More importantly for ToD the G-14 entered squadron service in July '44, the G-10 (same with the K-4) in October '44.

The AH G-6 entered service Feb/ Aug '43.

Not only does AH have a performance gap. They have no 109 that saw service from Aug '43 to October '44 (G-6/AS, G-14, G-14/AS).

If AH does a true G-10 then it can fill in for the AS engined 109s. The one late war 109 AH needs is the 109G-14.

The G-14 is basically a G-6 with MW-50.

The G-6 has a DB 605A engine

The G-14 has a DB 605AM engine.

M = MW-50.

[Squire]

My vote would be the 109G-14 as the added varient. Despite small differences between the 109G-10 (as it is in AH), and a 109K-4, they both were introduced at the same time with very similar performances.

It would be like asking for a Spit LF IX and a Spit LF VIII. The differences are very small.

For the Spitfire, I would like to see the Spit LF IXc or LF VIIIc. Either is fine. Fix the Spitfire V by making it either a Spit Vb, or a Spit Vc. Decide and go with it, but once the decision is made, dont have another bastardised version. Same with the Spit F. IX It should have the C armament only, 15lbs boost, and leave it alone.

It would also help if the timeframe for TOD was known.

Other possible Spits to look at would be the Spit VII (High alt fighter), Spit HF IXc (High alt fighter), and the Spit LF Vb, but sticking to the most common and usefull varients is still the best course.  We aren't going to get every exotic type that flew.

And a P-47C.

Seafire L.III is not really needed for a ETO TOD, but at some point, I wont cry if they added it. My guess is we will see it in a Pacific setup.

[Squire]

Another not often raised point about the Spits is the total lack of a drop tank for the Spit Vs (but they give it a bomb), and only one type for the IX and XIV.

Give them the proper, historical 30 and 45 gallon "slipper tanks" for use, as well as the later 50 gallon aluminum dt.

[Angus]

Kurfie had a list:
"IMHO, counterparts with good balance :
1939
Spit I, 2-pitch, 87 octane vs. Bf 109E-3

1940
Spit I, CS, 100 octane vs. Bf 109E-4/N or E-7/N

1941
Spit Vb, +12lbs, vs. 109F-2 MG151/15

1942
Spit Vc, +16lbs vs. 109F-4 MG 151/20 at 1.42ata  
Spit IXF Merlin 61/+15, vs. 109G-2
Perhaps G-2 would suffice instead of F-4/1.42, as they are similiar in performance and 109G was more typical

1943
Spit VIIILF, +18, vs. Bf 109G-6 at 1.42ata, opt. glass head armor

1944/45
Spit IX/XVI at +25 vs Bf 109G-14 with MW50. optional MK 108
Spit XIV +18 vs. G-10/1.8ata with MG 151/20. Also stands for G-6/AS and G-14/AS.
Spit XIV +21 vs. K-4 at 1.98ata and MK 108

This would bring a very balanced Spit vs. Messer setup."

Quite good IMHO

One edit would be a 1943 Spit IX LF with the merlin 66 or 70 +25, - but again, they are very similar to the VIII.
Then it is also the question of clipping or not. A hangar option?

[Kev367th]

Too many Angus -

All we need
1940 - Spit Ia - Merlin II 12lbs boost (as per BoB std) not the 6lbs we currenty have.
1941 - Spit LF Vb - Merlin 45M 12lbs boost as per 1941
1942 - Spit F IX"b" - Merlin 61 our current one but remove 50 cal and ord options.
1943 - Spit LF VIII"b" - Merlin 66 Std boost, broad chord pointed rudder, possibly short span ailerons.
1944 - Spit F XIVc- Our current but increase to 21lbs boost (make perks worth it)
1944 - Spit LF XVIe - Merlin 266 25lbs boost, clipped wings, broad chord pointy tail, and just for aesthetics a bubble canopy.

Seafire L III - Merlin 55M

That covers 1940 up to 1945 and gives the most produced, most common Spits.

Also gives the MkVIII for Far east scenarios, the LF XVI can stand in for the LF IX in scenarios.

Nice addition if it was possible would be the option to choose clipped/std/pointed wings, and engine type in the hanger. i.e Depending on role (F,LF,HF) the Mk VIII had either a Merlin 63,63A,66,or 70.
So if you were going to fight high alt you'd take the Merlin 70 and std wings, med alt Merlin 63 or 63A, low alt Merlin 66 with the option for clipped wings. With certain Mks having the option for pointed wings for the high alt version.

Explanation of IXb, VIIIb - The original designation for the 'c' wing was 4x20mms. The arrangement of 2x20mm and 4x303 with ord options has been more properly called the "improved b wing"

[jetb123]

Kev for christ sakes GET ON AH. I know you've been working on the spits hard, but we miss porking with ya :}

[MiloMorai]

Originally posted by Angus

Spit XIV +21 vs. K-4 at 1.98ata and MK 108

 

The K-4 @ 1.98 should be a perked a/c. Compared to the number of K-4s @ 1.80 it was only 'penny pocket' in numbers.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Kev367th
the LF XVI can stand in for the LF IX in scenarios.

Not with a bubble canopy it can't, nor at +25lbs boost.

[Angus]

So, we'd still miss the +25 boost Spit IX, and that's it.
And the 109K, a perk plane, - yes.
PERK KURFURST, muhahahaha

[Kurfürst]

Originally posted by Wotan
The G-14 is not like a G-10 performance wise.

That all depends... there were the G-14 with small supercharger, and the G-14/AS with the large(high alt) supercharger, the same one from DB 603G used on the G-10/K-4.

The G-14/AS and G-10 were almost identical in performance, ie. the former did 680 kph at 7.5km, the latter 685-690 at the same altitude. Of course the G-10 had the 605D engine, which could run either 1800/2000HP, while the G-14/AS`s 605ASM could only run at 1800HP (it was an interim solution to the 605D enigne)