P-47D vs Fw-190A (for those who play Il-2 or WB)

[1K3]

I hear that 190As doesnt stand a chance against a P-47Ds in AH

Now in IL2FB or WB, is P-47D vs 190A different or similar to AH when dueling?

[Grits]

Originally posted by 1K3
I hear that 190As doesnt stand a chance against a P-47Ds in AH

I wouldnt say that, the A-5 is especially a good match for the P-47's. P-47's are much better at very slow speed turning stability and has the excellent high speed flaps of all US planes, but the A-5 owns the verticle against them, outclimbs them by a wide margin and outrolls them by a greater amount. I do think the P-47's are better overall, but its a close run thing, and it matters more who is flying each plane than any performance difference.

[Ghosth]

I'd say its so close that it comes down to pilot more than the plane.

[Flyboy]

the P47 was a dog in warbirds. no idea how it does now, since i quit it 3 years ago.

in AH a P47 vrs a 190A5 is a good fight, each has different advantages.

[Wilbus]

P47 will easily outturn the 190 A5 thanks to combat flaps. If the 190 can get the speed down low enough to extend some flaps it might be able to keep up but don't bet on it.

Low speed the 190's best weaopn is roll rate, Jug rolls like a dead cow at slow speeds.

Climb, well yes it does climb better (the A5) and zoom is about the same IMO.

The P47 has got lots more choices IMO thanks to better turn rate, something that is very imoprtant in AH MA.

[Kweassa]

The Fw190A-5 is sorely outmatched by any AH P-47.


 For one thing, the timeline itself is wrong. The A-5 is a '43 plane, all of our P-47s are '44 planes. Maybe if it was against a slower, '43 P-47C, the Fw190A-5 would have some options to fly by. But against any of our P-47s, just plain fodder.

 The only advantage the A-5 has got is the climb, roll, acceleration, firepower. However, the difference between the P-47 and the Fw190A-5 in climb and accel, is not really something spectacular.

 Maybe if it was a 109, the climb and accel advantage would mean something. But the small amount of climb/accel advantage the A-5 has over a P-47 is null at best.

 So basically, the P-47s outrun and outturn the Fw190A-5 easily. Against someting that both outturns and outruns, any plane is in serious trouble.

 To make matters worse, all the Fw190s are absolute pigs at slow speeds. No turn capability at all.

 I mean, if it was something like a Bf109G vs a La-7... the La-7 both outturns and outruns the 109.. but the 109 can still maneuver somewhat at slow speeds. A well timed overshoot might give a solid opportunity as the La-7 passes by, and the 109 will start maneuvering behind it to grab hold to the lucky opportunity...

 But the 190s?
 
 Not a snowball's chance in hell.

 It's typically like this:

1. The P-47 comes in to latch on. Flaps out, rudders kicked, dumping E.

2. The 190 hopes for an overshoot... kicks rudder.. chops throttle.. and rolls crazy... Okay! The 190 succeeded in an overshoot!

3. So what? The P-47 sees that he is overshot. Immediately turns sharp to one side. Ut-oh.. too bad. Despite the overshoot, the 190 just refuses to move at that slow speed. All it can do is fly straight.

4. The P-47D, after being overshot, just simply turns until he gets behind the 190 again. Game over.



 ALL the cards are with the P-47.

 The only card the Fw190A-5's got is the lucky , first-cross snapshot. A short burst and maybe with luck, it might kill the P-47 flap or elevator or some other vital component.. and only .then it's got at least 50:50 chance.

[Morpheus]

I can see many of you haven't seen NathBDP's 190-A8 lately.

[Kweassa]

Maybe you didn't see Drex's P-47 at all?

[Grits]

Originally posted by Morpheus
I can see many of you haven't seen NathBDP's 190-A8 lately.

and

Originally posted by Kweassa
Maybe you didn't see Drex's P-47 at all?

Both of you are correct, which validates those of us that say between these two planes its the pilot that counts more than which plane they are flying.

Keassa, the A-5 has a huge advantage in climb (1100 FPM) over the D-11/D-25 and an equal size advantage in acceleration. The A-4 climbs at near 4K FPM at low levels, and the D-11/D-25 cant even crack 3K FPM, on top of that the WEP in the A-5 lasts twice as long as the P-47's. I agree with you that the P-47's are better overall, for the reasons you stated, but I think you make the true performance difference far greater than it really is.

[Kweassa]

Grits, the only alt range where the A-5's climb rate advantage is big enough to make any real use, is between 0~10k feet.

 Above that altitude,


1) Against a P-47D-11, the Fw190A-5 has about 700fpm advantage max. Above 23k the D-11 outclimbs

2) Against a P-47D-25, the Fw190A-5 has less than 500fpm advantage max. Above 22k the D-25 outclimbs

3) Against a P-47D-40, the D-40 outclimbs the A-5 at all altitudes except 15~20k range. Between 15~20k, the A-5 holds about 200fpm advantage max.

 Unfortunately, as alt grows, so does speed.

* The P-47D-11 on military power, is as fast as the Fw190A-5 on WEP.

* The P-47D-25 and D-40 on military power, is about 10 mph slower than the Fw190A-5 at WEP.

 So.. as you climb higher and higher, the chances of you being caught are also higher. If the jug gets bored of the 190 climbing away, it can just turn and run, and the A-5 still can't catch any of the jugs.

 Basically, if you duke it out with any P-47 with an A-5, and you mess it up a but and decide to climb away, the chances are the P-47s will catch you long before the vertical separation is large enough to offer any kind of sanctuary from 8x .50s.

 Ofcourse, this would mean something if you were higher than the P-47 from the very beginning.. then the A-5 would be able to BnZ the Jug to its death...

 But under normal, coalt, 1vs1 conditions... its meaningless. With pilot skills being roughly equal, I'd bet on the P-47 everytime.

[Grits]

Originally posted by Kweassa
Grits, the only alt range where the A-5's climb rate advantage is big enough to make any real use, is between 0~10k feet.

 Above that altitude,

I rarely fly more than 3k AGL so I dont care how they match up at 20k.

[SirLoin]

In the DA I would take the A5..It climbs better and has much more WEP...Use the verticle and with patience should win every time.

[Pongo]

I would take a 190D9 vs a P47D40 any day. But thats me.

[Stang]

Originally posted by Pongo
I would take a 190D9 vs a P47D40 any day. But thats me.

You've never faced a truly good P-47 driver then.  There is no contest between these two rides.

[JB42]

While your points are valid Kwes, I rarely see any Jug pilot go into a flaps out turn fight above 10k. Therefore the A5 now holds the advantage in both climb and acceleration.

In all my encounters with P47s (which i usually win ), it comes down to the biggest advantage the A5 holds, armament. While sometimes i do get my paint scratched by 50 cals, in a slow twisting fight it comes down to damage done with a short burst. I'll take cannons everytime.