Author Topic: Excuse me if im wrong but... (Read 3825 times)

Messiah · « **on:** July 26, 2005, 02:34:00 AM »

Isn't Vulching NOT allowed in the DA? IMO what happens in This Film is utter BS.

2bighorn · « **Reply #1 on:** July 26, 2005, 02:59:51 AM »

We had several threads about crap in DA but no actions were taken, so it's maybe better that you send film directly to HTC.

All we need is ROE posted as MOTD and give TA trainers boot and mute privies in DA.

Hell, we got 8 MPs in O'Club, but none in DA

SkyChimp · « **Reply #2 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:46:22 AM »

I know sloe hates to vulch he vulches the vulchers

Nexsys · « **Reply #3 on:** July 26, 2005, 03:50:38 AM »

This was instigated by LiamRay. Rules of engagement in the DA are that you give the person you wish to fight a check 6 call before engaging them. Liam repeatedly and outright refused to do so, often swooping in without warning on squad dogfights, as more than a few people can attest to over the past few days. We not only gave him warnings, asking him to follow that rule, but made sure he actually knew about it. After more than a few times of putting up with his crap, over the past few nights of him doing this over and over even after being reminded, most of the people in the DA, not just one or two, but the majority of the room kept him on the ground. He was asked to follow the rules, but insisted on smarting off and whatnot to us all. I'll more than gladly write an email about him and what he does, but when he ruins the fun for everyone in there, time and time again, I don't think anyone wants to stop their fun to wait for a response by email. Instead the DA kept him down for a bit, and then went back to their duels. This is someone who can't admit his own mistake, or just follow one simple rule. We tried, and we were more than patient with him. Tonight however, was thekind of the last straw for a few people.

Sloehand · « **Reply #4 on:** July 26, 2005, 04:14:40 AM »

What Messiah did not say was that there was a context to this incident and the film he is showing. And while agree with Messiah that vulching is not the best solution, it is the one that I was taught by while learning in the DA by most of the older pilots who fly duels there, as the only way to get people to stop disrupting the arena after they have been asked several times to stop. And at that moment, it was the only solution available to me. Allowing for the fact that I and others wanted to continue to play properly in the DA.
LiamRay (forever to be known as the Perp) had been asked repeatedly, by several pilots, to stop his disruptive behavior in the DA. He had behaved the same way the night before even to the point of antagonizing the Hell's Angels squad who were having a practice in the DA (just ask them about the Perp).
On both nights he continued to:
A: shoot planes down from behind while taking off.
B: refuse to wave off of private duels, cherry picking everyone, without any Check6.
C: did a little vulching of his own
D: utterly refused to leave people alone who did not want to fight with him.

As always, I asked several times if he knew the rules most pilots play by in the DA, and got no answer. There was no response from him for quite awhile when he was being asked to stop. When he did eventually respond he was insulting, aggressive, antagonistic and rude at best.
He would just not stop attacking indescriminately, which pissed off 5 or 6 of us, who, subsequently told him if he wouldn't play by the rules, we would keep him on the runway. Which we did.
Periodically, I would tell him if he would agree to stop, we would stop.
I personally do not get any great enjoyment from vulching anyone, especially in the DA. But I have no other alternative to stop that kind of behavior in the moment.
I think anyone who has spent anytime in the DA with me, knows I follow the rules very carefully with everyone (except for Sniper -

).
I would think it wonderful if HTC could find a way to prevent any disruptive behavior in the DA. But we don't regularly have Trainers in there to enforce it on the spot, so I don't know how that would work.
I do know that when I pay my money, and go into the DA, I want to play the right way and have fun. And I will take exception and action against anyone so dweeb enough to not let other people enjoy themselves.

Slash27 · « **Reply #5 on:** July 26, 2005, 04:36:49 AM »

(just ask them about the Perp).

He upped at the field we were all at and proceded to vulch and pop guys just getting wheels up. He was told what we were doing and to knock it off. He refused and wasnt allowed to get airborne after that. Then the "FUs" began. I dont have film (as usual) but it sounds like its his calling card in the DA from others Ive talked too. Seems like there is always one of these guys in the DA lately.

Schutt · « **Reply #6 on:** July 26, 2005, 05:25:15 AM »

Here you see how taking a film out of context or arriving somewhere in the middle of the action can give you the totally wrong picture.

Thats why its not really a good idea to play police about something your not really involved in, if the guy getting vulched complaines i understand it, but as you see he had no reason since he did missbehave himself.

Schatzi · « **Reply #7 on:** July 26, 2005, 06:09:36 AM »

Dont know what happened those times with LiamRay. But ive been vulched as well the other night in DA. Cant remember by whom. I think it was someone bailed with .45. Sucks to be upping for duels with a PW from the start.

While i think that Sloe may be right and at that moment it was the only way seen by those online to stop him from doing what he did i also agree with Messiah. What happend in that film, context or no context, is simply wrong. Youre weakening your own position regarding the rules by clearly not following them either. Good reason for that or none.

And Messiah got shot after telling Racdogg off. Twice. Rules on that?

My 2cts: If this ever happens again (LiamR or anyone else) film it, take a screenie, send it off to HTC.

Sloehand · « **Reply #8 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:07:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Schatzi

While i think that Sloe may be right and at that moment it was the only way seen by those online to stop him from doing what he did i also agree with Messiah. What happend in that film, context or no context, is simply wrong. Youre weakening your own position regarding the rules by clearly not following them either. Good reason for that or none.

And Messiah got shot after telling Racdogg off. Twice. Rules on that?

.

Hey, we both can't be right, can we? Seriously, its a matter perspective. The solution must occur immediately at the time of infraction, or its pointless.
Given that, I had to make a decision. I can either:
1. Leave the DA- which means he has succeeded in adversely impacting my entertainment and my right (?) to play the game as it was intended.
2. Try to ignore him (we tried for quite awhile) and getting shot down repeatedly without warning while engaged with someone else, or being shot off the runway -- once again, ruining my enjoyment of the game while I'm trying to play it properly, respecting others enjoyment of the game.
3. Do what is necessary to stop him from imposing chaos on my (and others) experience in the DA. i.e. keep him from being able to shoot us down, which means keeping him from flying in the only way possible.
Being on high moral ground is a great thing, and I know he was clearly in the wrong, and that two wrongs don't make a right, BUT my objective -- after trying to reason with him -- was to make him stop his behavior (U)immediately(/U) and go away so I and the rest of the room who were up till then playing nice, could continue. By the way, it worked -- 27 vulches later he left and we got on with the dueling.

As for what happened to Messiah, I admit I wan't paying any attention to him or Racdogg so I don't know what was said or what happened between them (haven't watched the film yet, either). I do know that if Messiah is as knowledgable and reasoning as he seems, and has been in the DA a significant amount, then he has to have seen a room go off on a miscreant before, and should know that once it reaches that point, and if he wasn't there when it started (which he wasn't), its better to stay uninvolved.

megadud · « **Reply #9 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:19:08 AM »

i thinmk liam is skitzo because sometimes he vulches and cherrys me and sometimes he fights me fair. I know vulching is ghey and shouldn't be done. It's kind of like stooping down to the kids level. By kids i mean the 12 year olds that do it non stop in the DA. My only question is how can it be fun just waiting around to shoot the same guy over and over?

LEARN THE GAME GEEZE!!!! Only like 94% of the game is vulches and cherry picks!!!!!! GEEZE!!!!

what are you going to do if you run into the other 6% that involves a fair ACM fight?! then you're lost!!

Westy · « **Reply #10 on:** July 26, 2005, 07:41:47 AM »

LOOK!

If I have to pull this car over someone is going to be VERY very sorry.

Now sit down, shut up and just look out the cawdamn window.

LiamRay if you touch Messiah or Mexsys again I'm gonna reach over and smack your hand so hard you won't be able to see thru the tears till next Tuesday.

Schatzi · « **Reply #11 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:44:28 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Sloehand
Hey, we both can't be right, can we? Seriously, its a matter perspective. The solution must occur immediately at the time of infraction, or its pointless.
Given that, I had to make a decision. I can either:
1. Leave the DA- which means he has succeeded in adversely impacting my entertainment and my right (?) to play the game as it was intended.
2. Try to ignore him (we tried for quite awhile) and getting shot down repeatedly without warning while engaged with someone else, or being shot off the runway -- once again, ruining my enjoyment of the game while I'm trying to play it properly, respecting others enjoyment of the game.
3. Do what is necessary to stop him from imposing chaos on my (and others) experience in the DA. i.e. keep him from being able to shoot us down, which means keeping him from flying in the only way possible.
Being on high moral ground is a great thing, and I know he was clearly in the wrong, and that two wrongs don't make a right, BUT my objective -- after trying to reason with him -- was to make him stop his behavior (U)immediately(/U) and go away so I and the rest of the room who were up till then playing nice, could continue. By the way, it worked -- 27 vulches later he left and we got on with the dueling.

As for what happened to Messiah, I admit I wan't paying any attention to him or Racdogg so I don't know what was said or what happened between them (haven't watched the film yet, either). I do know that if Messiah is as knowledgable and reasoning as he seems, and has been in the DA a significant amount, then he has to have seen a room go off on a miscreant before, and should know that once it reaches that point, and if he wasn't there when it started (which he wasn't), its better to stay uninvolved.

I *do* think we can both be right. But that would lead to a discussion about absolute truth and absolute lies and the in betweens that doesnt belong here in this thread.

I know i havent been there. Dont know what id have done. And i mean that honestly: maybe id have vulched him, maybe id have left DA, maybe id have picked another beer and upped a Hurri out of hangar and killed him, or maybe id just logged frustrated. I really dont know.

But i dont think leaving the DA (as group) makes him 'succeed' in any way. He might be standing on the runway slapping his chest... buuut: noone there who sees it. Pathetic though, isnt it?

I also dont know Messiah, so i wont comment on his personality. But the film is clear. He recieved chk6 and said no. Twice. Then got shot while autolevel.

Schatzi · « **Reply #12 on:** July 26, 2005, 08:48:39 AM »

Another thought. And again, i havent been there and dont know LiamRay. Anyone feel free and tell me: No, impossible... quit thinking girl.

Maybe, just maybe Liam doesnt know whats going on? Youd be amazed at what some guys dont get. Just stay on channel 6 for a bit.

Shane · « **Reply #13 on:** July 26, 2005, 09:29:25 AM »

personally what i'd do (and have done in past) if playing in the FFA area of the DA and warnings/requests being ignored, would be to up from another base, cap his *** and then proceed ot vulch *him* repeatedly until he gets the idea to play nice. enlist a deputy or 2 to help with this police action.

i mean, jeez, c'mon... whining solves nothing in this kind of situation, take action!! stand up for yourselves - show him who's boss!

here, have a cookie.

SlapShot · « **Reply #14 on:** July 26, 2005, 10:06:19 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Schatzi
Another thought. And again, i havent been there and dont know LiamRay. Anyone feel free and tell me: No, impossible... quit thinking girl.

Maybe, just maybe Liam doesnt know whats going on? Youd be amazed at what some guys dont get. Just stay on channel 6 for a bit.

QUIT THINKING GIRL !!!

From a past experience in the DA (about a month ago now) this type of behavior is becoming the norm and not the exception in the DA. From all the post above ... it appears that the Perp has been explained the rules of engagement MANY times and refuses to abide by them.

Until HTC steps in and wacks some people around, I wholeheartly agree with the actions taken by the "group" (vulch the vulchers).

About a month ago I dropped into the DA ...

Start to roll ... ping ping ping ... plane is trashed ... perp (not Liam) flys by ... note name to self.

Start to roll ... ping ping ping ... BOOM ... see perp (not Liam) fly by from the tower ... note name to self.

Start to roll ... get wheels up ... engage in a great duel with Jish ... rolling sissors from 5K to tree tops ... finally get angle on Jish and just about to pull the trigger ... ping ping ping ... plane is trashed ... perp (not Liam) flys by ... note name to self.

Start to roll ... get wheels up ... proceed to shoot perp out of sky ... then proceed to vulch perp for the next 10 minutes ... perp starts swearing at me ... I explain why he won't get wheels up ... land ... perp get wheels up, I get wheels up ... proceed to shoot perp out of sky ... then proceed to vulch perp for the next 10 minutes ... rinse and repeat until he logged.

Not proud of it, but it solved my problem ... I much rather would have been dueling but one can only take so much and no one with any authority has been present in the DA to stop this crap.

Next time I go to the DA and it happens again ... I will apply the Shane Doctrine all over again.