Arkansas and evolution :D

[ICEWIND]

Just wanted to bring up one point.
It is somehow amusing to say that RELGION is not based on Scientific evidence, or just say Religion it is just pure Myth. Strange, that in modern day interpretation we take the word Myth as something unproven or just to be some sort of fairytale.
But the astonishing part about Religion is that it is  the oldest and the most everlasting Knowledge of the things that surround us outside and inside ,take that as a Scientific fact. Some of you  might be wondering how I can claim that Religion and Myth are Scientific facts that are older Proof than any modern-day interpretation of Scientific facts. Well the answer is quite (simple).No one can deny that Mankind has bin thinking about Religious thoughts from the beginning of time till now, that's a fact.
Religion is the fundament of Cultures and the beginning of art and the never lasting search for Knowledge and word-literally the beginning of the Human mind.
The Bible is a fact ,the Koran is a fact, the Pyramids are fact ,the Kölner Dom is Fact, Kum is the Fact, the Vatican is a fact ,Acropolis is a fact, Ankor is Fact, the littler old church in your small town is Fact, the Cave Painting of Chauvet are a Fact, the Veda (Sanskrit, "knowledge") is a Fact, Mohenjo Daro is a Fact, Palenque is a Fact, the Lionman of Ulm Germany is Fact(the oldest work of art of Mankind that has bin found till now 30.000-40.000 years old).
a Cemetery is Fact, you could go on for ever.

   

The oldest work of art of Mankind the Lionman of Ulm is very interesting, because it reminds me of the teaching of the Totenkopf -Verbände. They say that a all Culture and Art spread out from Germany and that's why the Germans are the Übermenschen.    It gets even more bizarre what modern-day Archeologists have to say to the loinman of Ulm, they believe that the Lionman was created as some sort of Cultic-trophy as a symbol of defeat that our last cousins of Soul but not of flesh the Neandertals were defeated.
The strange thing about modern day Science and the  Neandertals is that science is the ones who keeps deforming them as some sort of primitive Monkey like Creature.
If they had survived it would be very hard taking for the Human mind in every aspect be it in Religious or Scientifically to accept a equal Life form that's is not Genetically related to us.



[This message has been edited by ICEWIND (edited 03-27-2001).]

[Cabby]

Quote:

"Evolution is happening as we speak. "

Prove it.

Oh, BTW Daff, if you want to chuckle at stupid ideas and beliefs, watch some 1940's "Popular Science" movie-shorts....

Good thing there are quite a few of us left who don't accept all so-called "science" as "science" and /or believe everything we are told.

Cabby



[This message has been edited by cabby (edited 03-27-2001).]

[fd ski]

 

Originally posted by cabby:
Quote:
Good thing there are quite a few of us left who don't ... believe everything we are told.
Cabby

Then how can you justify your belief in a bible ?
Did you invent it ?
 


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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF

Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998

Northolt Wing Headquarters

[Tac]

"Prove it"

I dont have the sources with me, but:

Cranial capacity (and brain size) has increased in the past 3000 years. Your children will probably be a bit smarter than you.

The Apendix has no current use in the human body, yet in the past, our pre-homosapiens ancestors might have needed it to digest stuff or some other unknown function.Mother nature quickly gets rid of stuff that doesnt work, and our apendix is still there..and it may disappear in the coming generations.

If that aint evolution, I dont know what is.

[StSanta]

Icewind, that religions exist is pretty hard to dispute. That every religion is right is downright impossible to claim, since they're contradicting each other. So a smorgasbord where you take your pick.

Or rather, where your parents pick for you. 95% of all theists in the world have the same religion as their parents. Cultural mind memes.

Religion has been with us for a long time - but claiming that adds validity to [insert religion] is a logical fallacy. It doesn't detract validity either.

Cabby, any intro level book on evolution will show you examples of practically real time evolution in bacteria and viral strains. it's pretty hard to argue that the HIV virus does not mutate and change, or that strands of flu do not. Now, most mutation is *bad* for whatever species it occurs on. Natural selection is nature's way of ensuring that only good mutations are passed on to the next generation - a three legged lion with two tails isn't likely to last long.

So, what you can 8and probably vehemently will) attack is the theory of evolution - again, this is the mechanism by which we try to explain the fact. just like "stuff seem to fall down to the ground - let's have a theory of gravity to explain why". The theory of evolution is as much a scientific theory as is the theory of gravity.

And, do not assume that I'm following biologists blindly. Biology happens to be one of my interests and by now I'm sufficiently proficient in it to spot errors in text books now and then.

And, as fdski said, where'd your belief in the bible come from?  .

So, evolution has lots of support. I wonder why you do not say "prove it" about your own faith?



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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Tac]

and no consulting the little book.  

[Staga]

Give up guys,
he has made his decisions already, don't waste your time anymore.
(...or Cabby is the Greatest fisherman I've seen in my life )

Back to the topic:
Whatta heck is happening in State of Arkansas ? Are they nuts ?

[Cabby]

LOL!!  You "prove" evolution based on one-cell organisms???   You prove nothing.  And don't confuse mutation with "proof" of evolution.

You Darwinist's are a hoot.  The Darwin "bible" is a nice piece of unproven conjecture adopted as a "belief"by those in search of some explanation of that which cannot be explained.  

Where have i heard THAT before??

Still laughing,

Cabby

[Tac]

mutation is the basis of evolution.

[ICEWIND]

The thing I love the most about atheists is that if they realize that death is closing in on them they throw their modern day Scientific World-Order really fast over board, then they whine the loudest "Oh great God forgive me for not believing".

If you want some Proof go look at yourself. Do you  really think in your self glorifying arrogance that the Cosmos would really give a dam if life (or you) exist or not. Would it make a difference for a rock if a  living creature on the surface of Earth would realize that it is there or not, no!! So the conclusion has to be that we where gifted by a Supreme Being.If you insist on being like a rock that's fine with me ,so be it.
But why We? Why not stay like a rock? That's the paradox dilemma of our existence. And do not forget that Evolution did not invent itself!!!
Just because we can answer the question why a cell mutates ,we can not  answer the question why it is there in the first place. Just because we can answer some really small questions, does not make us smarter.
I dare anyone to explain what was there before the Universe? Nothing? How can I think about nothing if it is nothing? If nothing exists how can nothing be there?
How can nothing be answered? It is not up to humans or anything living to answer this question.

Tac and StSanta I think you'd better go in a really hot Sauna or visit a active Volcano so that you are prepared for what will await you in your afterlife.  


[This message has been edited by ICEWIND (edited 03-27-2001).]

[yaffle]

Evolution is indeed a theory, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence for it but no "Proof". The MECHANISM by which evolution is thought to happen is NOT a theory, it is a fact. Survival of the fittest or natural selection is an observable natural phenomenon. - You might as well not believe in clouds.

Alex

(we take part in a game which proves natural selection every day - take an early war MG equipped no armor low power canvas over wood plane up against a late war cannon equipped heavy amour high power aluminum monster and you WILL believe in survival of the fittest!!)

[Cabby]

Quote:

"mutation is the basis of evolution."

So, a cat born with 6 legs is a new kind of cat??  Or, just a mutant, an unfortunate cat with 6 legs.......Now if the cat sprouted wings, or a very large, fully developed brain, now THAT would be news.

"Survival of the Fittest" or "Natural Selection"?  True, that's the fundamental law of Nature.  For animals and plants.

Some of us think human beings are a little more special than your garden-variety chimpanzee, white-face steer, or cocker spaniel.  

However, "Social Darwinism", as it pertains to human beings, is somehow so Fascist, so Godless, so Holocaust, so pointless.......

Some of you may think you "evolved" from some ape(which evolved from a squirrel, which evolved from a frog, which evolved from a fish, which evolved from a snail, and other such absolutely-no-proof speculation) and are no different from, or any better than, any other animal in creation, but i don't.  And until irrefutable evidence is presented to prove otherwise(i'm not worrying about THAT ever occuring)i'll continue to think so.

To me, Evolution and Darwinism are precursors to Eugenics, the devaluation of human life, and ultimately mass murder.  And i despise "Evolution is a Fact" propaganda.

Cabby

[yaffle]

Cabby, when the fittest survive - something you have agreed happens - what is it they survive to do?

They survive to pass on their genetic material to the next generation - they pass on those things that make them fit. Your cat with six legs is indeed unfortunate, it will probably die without passing on the "six legs gene" thus no more six legged cats. However another cat - with a gene for, lets say, slightly better night vision, has an advantage. It is a better hunter, can catch more food, grow larger, be stronger, win more fights, mate with more females and thus pass on the "better night vision" gene to it's children. Extend this over millions of generations and you end up with tigers and housecats - and, indeed humans and chimpanzees.

[StSanta]

Ice, you're using the old "there are no atheists in foxholes" fallacy. http://www.infidels.org  has a list of atheists who served in wars and remained atheists.

Being scared of not living is no precisely a compelling argument in favour of theism - if anything, it shows the tendency of humans to make irrational decisions when under pressure.

I've done some stuff that could have killed me, and it hasn't made me more or less religious. I've accepted that all I have evidence for is this life and once it is gone, hoping for something else is wishful thinking at best.

Cabby, you do not seem to grasp even the simplest concepts of evolution, yet you blast it with a fervour, clinging to your bible.

Homo sapiens sapiens is an animal species. the same laws and mechanisms applying to other species applies to us - we do not sit on a golden throne with special laws.

Let me explain to you by using a very simplied example that you might be able to understand.

Mutation is how change occur. Natural selection is the decider of which mutations are carried through to another generation.

The very rapid life cycle of virus and bacteria make 'um good objects of studies - of course, you can use fruit flies too, but then you have to wait considerably longer.

Your idea that all species were on earth from the get go and since some have been killed while others have lasted until today is ignorant. your claim of those who've studied the theory of evolution being blind followers is ironic, considering how you follow a collection of works from humans that is less than 2000 years old and written centuries after a poor guy got nailed to a piece of wood for  saying that people were meanies and should treat each other better.

But, you serve well as an example - every time I want to show someone that there are people impervious to facts, i can point at you  .

Thank you for providing me a source of laughter.

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"
"If you return from a mission with a victory, but without your Rottenflieger, you have lost your battle."
- D. Hrabak, JG 54 "Grünherz"

[Voss]

I say Neanderthal lives with us even today!  

Look around you. Not everyone has the intelligence to fly online flight sims!   See, Santa is just playing the role of Devil here. It is his intention to befuddle your minds with scientific data, when all you need is belief!

God made a great thing called man. Man (created man that is) mated with Neanderthal (evolved women in this case). No reason to kill breeding stock after all (no matter how ugly they still keep you warm). So, we are left with a wide range of morons!  

The only power devined upon man is the knowledge of Good and Evil. Every other sense you have can, and is, fooled every day.

(Don't take this any more serious then Santa's tripe! "It's just a model.")

What's going on in Arkansas? In the cities the division of classes has created a large gap in social ethics. The lower class troublemakers create crystal meth (crank) every where that they can (car trunks, graveyards, garages, and caves). The poor ethical people live on in fear and social isolation, but are often untroubled with their lot in life. The middle class lives in ignorance and believes themselves safe from harm, and consider themselves ethically pure (some screw up, too). The rich get richer and pump money into rich people activities like University Complexes, and food drives. The Middle Class and the Rich sometimes get together to help the needy and achieve their salvation. There are way too many of all of the above!   Ain't it the same everywhere?

Racial profiling is alive and well. Politics are at play as well, but we won't go there.

I prefer the country life. My kids go to a good school where they are taught to be liberals (yeech!), but outside of that they are getting a good education in nature. We fish, we fly, we swim, we ride horses, we hunt, and yes we enjoy life! Arkansas can be a great place to relax, but only if you can get the real world out of your head.

Then there's the old man out be "Superior Wheels and Castings" that squeaked to high heaven about us flying R/C Helicopters where he could see them through his binoculars (must be a bird watcher). He got really nasty and squeaked and whined and moaned and groaned, until the land owner told us R/C was out the door. Now I have a $4000 toy that I can't fly anywhere.

Was that you Santa (aka Satan)?

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Voss
13th TAS