Author Topic: Pyro (Read 1106 times)

Guppy35 · « **Reply #30 on:** August 03, 2005, 05:36:30 PM »

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Originally posted by Kev367th
Wonder if they'll remove the TA-152?

I changed my underwear more times (almost) than the amount of them that got to see service (70 ish?).

Wotan - Of course you can match them up. The usual excuse of you cant always do that is used to try and justify multiple variants wanted for the same year, or people wanting some of the more exotic aircraft.

I'm sure a lot of the Spit fans would have liked exotic Spits like the XII, HF VII etc but they were rare, (even then more produced that the TA-152) and we stayed realistic.

Hell I would have loved to have the Spit XII and argued for it in the Spit threads, in the end I saw sense.
Thats also why we suggested the Vb instead of the Vc for 1941.

Don't get me going on the XII

Thats where my Spit passion started back in 1980 and has remained for a long long time.

I kinda figure the clipped LFXVIe is about as close as I can hope to get in AH

Dan/CorkyJr

Kev367th · « **Reply #31 on:** August 03, 2005, 05:37:09 PM »

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Originally posted by Guppy35
Close! There was not IXc or VIIIc.

There was a Vc but the IX and VIII were not officially designated the same way. The wing was referred to as the Universal Wing. Of course on the Spit V the Universal wing was officially called the C wing

The E designation was added when they went to the 2 20mm and 2 50 cals.

Dan/CorkyJr

Yup I remember the a,b,c,e wing discussion - oooohh my head hurts lol.

Dan - Add a bubbletop 16 to the profile.
Yeah shame about the XII but we had to be realstic, something that the LW guys don't seem to want to do -
I want multiple 109s for 1942 because this one added an automatic pamper changer to it.
I also want 109/190 that were only made in ridiculously small quantities of which very few seen active service.
I also want them ALL to be free because I'm scared that someone in a Spit VIX might kill my perky plane.

They can't even agree amonst themselves, I think by a few posts us Spitfans had all but settled on a REPRESENTATIVE Spit lineup, Pyro agreed, thats what we are getting.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 03, 2005, 05:40:28 PM »

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Originally posted by Kev367th
Yup I remember the a,b,c,e wing discussion - oooohh my head hurts lol.
Dan do us a profile of a bubbletop 16.

Already posted it in the other thread

But here it is again. Still like the classing high profile look better.

Bottom one is also an LFXVIe

Dan/CorkyJr

Wotan · « **Reply #33 on:** August 03, 2005, 05:53:13 PM »

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Wotan - Of course you can match them up. The usual excuse of you cant always do that is used to try and justify multiple variants wanted for the same year, or people wanting some of the more exotic aircraft.

I have no idea what you are talking about at this point...

You asked in the original post:

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what are your thoguhts on the 109/190 opponents for them?

My list:

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1940 - Spit I (+12lbs boost as of March 1940. All Merlin III fitted with C.P props by August 1940)
1940 - 109E-4 (May 1940, Also most of the earlier Emils were upgraded to the E-4 standard during the summer of 1940)

1941 - Spit Vb (12 Ibs, February 1941. 2 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912. Mason)
1941 - 109F-4 (1.3ata, the first F-4s reached the front line units in June 1941. Prien & Rodeike)

1942 - Spit F IX (May 1942. 81 SQN The British Fighter Since 1912 Mason)
1942 - 109G-2 ( June 1942. The first units, III/JG 52 and I/JG 54, received their G-2s in June 1942. The first loss reports are from July 7th and 8th 1942. Prien & Rodeike)

1943 - Spit LF VIII (?)
1943 - 109G-6 (G-6 Entered service and saw action with II/JG 53, II/JG 77, JG 27 and JG 51 in February 1943. Prien & Rodeike)

1944 - Spit LF XVI (18 lbs boost ?)
1944 - 109G-14 (G-14 entered service with II/JG 11 and Stab/JG 53 in July 1944)

Late 1944 - Spit F XIV (21lbs boost ?)
Late 1944 - 109G-10/K-4 (October 1944 / K-4 Entered service with III/JG 4, Stab+I,II,III,IV/JG 27 and II/Jg 77 in October 1944. Prien & Rodeike, H. Valtonen)

That list is not only practical it terms of demonstrating to the unwashed masses what's what but you won't get any more 'historical' and/or 'practical' then that.

OTOH you say:

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The dates are service entry (just did by year and picking the most produced version of Spit).

I reply:

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It doesn't really matter if its service dates, or or most produced during a given year, or even if the VIII's real opponent was the G-14.

Meaning that if you get the Spit line up you expect, a 109 line up as I described would be the best alternative and a direct answer to your original question.

You then say:

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Actaully if you think about TOD, I suspect you'll find that he IS looking for a historical matchup.

My reply being is the 109 line up I suggested is what ToD / Scenarios and events would need both historically and for practical purposes...

Now what is it you are going on about?

The Spit LF.VIII that AH could stand in for the Spit LF.IX... An easy 'historical' match for the G-6...

the Spit LF.XVIe CW (stand in for the Spit LF.IX CW) that Guppy suggested would fit well as a match to the G-14...

A 1944 Spit XIV @ 21lbs boost would match up well with the G-10/K-4 (perked or unperked...)

It doesn't matter if the VIII was used in the Pac or even if the Seafire III was. A Pac Tod is a long way off. In the mean time these planes will have use in WETO/MTO. As such the 109s I suggested fit well in establishing a some what historical counter to each other...

And no they won't remove the 152, why would they..? Its useless for ToD and events and only gets play in the main. What difference does it make just by being in the plane list that would require it being removed?

At this point I am not sure what it is you are saying. I made my suggestions and they are all as 'historical' and as 'practical' as AH is gonna get given the expected new Spit line up...

Kev367th · « **Reply #34 on:** August 03, 2005, 06:00:40 PM »

Sorry Wotan misunderstood your orignal reply.

That IS the Spit lineup we are getting, the only choice Pyro is deciding on is whether the 16 comes in at 18lbs boost or 25lbs boost.
At the moment he is leaning towards 18lbs with possibly 25lbs in the future.

OK good 109 lineup you got there, 190s?

TA-152 - Just wondered, you never know, every different plane variant requires extra work by Pyro, thats why he wasn't to keen on making the Spit 16 a bubbletop one just to make it look different from the Mk8. Doing it as clipped wing 16 wasn't a problem, its easier to remove stuff than add.

Wotan · « **Reply #35 on:** August 03, 2005, 06:13:56 PM »

Well the 152 is there, its done... It hasn't been re-done to AH2 standards but a lot of planes haven't been re-done...

The 190s were just re-done. I wouldn't expect them to re-visit the 190s for some time...

The only 2 190s that AH would need is an 190A-3 and an A-6 (you could drop the A-5 altogether or add a 4 x MG 151/2cm option and call it an A-6... performance is the same...)

An A-9 would be nice for late war but I doubt that is reasonable...

Other then that the only new 109 needed is the G-14 and the LW day fighters will be set for the most part...

Kev367th · « **Reply #36 on:** August 03, 2005, 06:53:06 PM »

Thats what I meant Wotan, as Pyro is redoing the 109's now he may drop the 152, you never know.
It would have been just as easy to have a Spit with extended wings as a 152, but that isn't happening.
As he said to me when discussing extended tips - 'its easier to remove (ie clip wings) than it is to add things'.

TDeacon · « **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2005, 07:27:06 PM »

Appreciate the work you guys are putting on the expanded plane sets.

However, why ever suggest that they remove a plane?? I will never probably fly a Ta152, but it's done, and probably someone likes it, so why not leave it there?

Kev367th · « **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2005, 08:56:33 PM »

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Originally posted by TDeacon
Appreciate the work you guys are putting on the expanded plane sets.

However, why ever suggest that they remove a plane?? I will never probably fly a Ta152, but it's done, and probably someone likes it, so why not leave it there?

In order to keep it Pyro has to redo it doing the re-model of the Spit/109.
Just wondered if he'd bother, considering all the extra work for a plane that is very rarely used. You'd be surprised how much time adding little things or changing stuff takes, even on a base model.

Eg I was doing a Seahawk based of an existing Jayhawk model. Gave up because it was taking so long.

Wotan · « **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2005, 10:10:31 PM »

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In order to keep it Pyro has to redo it doing the re-model of the Spit/109.

He doesn't 'have to re-do' it now...

If anything they should have re-done when they were doing the 190s. The 152 is in no way related to the 109s... Its a Kurt Tank production..

If they choose to do it now, which is great but it doesn't get that much use to be a priority.

Kev367th · « **Reply #40 on:** August 03, 2005, 10:15:41 PM »

Ah CC, tks.
Not as much a 190/109 officiando as I am a Spit one.

Dunno why, I just always thoguht it looked very like a 109, although never usually get close enough to it for a good look

Krusty · « **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2005, 10:27:17 PM »

delted, redundant post