Disgusted

[rshubert]

Originally posted by humble
Further....

Quite using big words you dont understand or cant utilize coherently in a sentence. In no way shape or form is this an intellectual exercise of any kind....or was my statement arrogant. I'm simply trying to answer your "question".

The simple fact is that the "business" of aerial warfare is a complex undertaking. Many of the top "sim pilots" have thousands of hours of "combat" experience accumulated over years (even decades). Recognizing that the physical (& mental) elements of combat flying are missing they are however tactically as good if not better then the best pilots who have ever fired a shot in anger.

The learning curve to becoming competitive at the highest level here (or in any similiar sim) is obviously very steep. As I said above most of us (including me) occasionaly (or often) find other ways to participate. However to try and compare the simplistic "point & click" of bombing to true "air combat" is ludicrous and simply highlights your own arrogance....among other things.

I understand the big words, humble.  My whole point is that NONE OF THIS IS ANYTHING LIKE REALITY.  Simply enough put for you?  Did you get it that time?  Golly, I sure hope so.

Pal, tactically you would get killed on day one.  So would I.  We are not elite, highly trained fighter pilots.  We do not use the level of mission planning, cooperation, and teamwork that even a third world airforce would use.  Being good at this game and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee from the machine in the break room.

And if you want to talk about arrogance, then explain why you are constitutionally incapable of posting anything that doesn't include a chest beating claim that those who disagree with you are somehow...inferior.

[Sketch]

Originally posted by rshubert
Psychotic?  Maybe.  Maybe I am psychotic.  Back at the institution they said I would be ok if I keep taking my medicine, though.  I must say I haven't felt the need to run through the streets screaming like a banshee lately.  Maybe the drugs do help.

I didn't know Viagra helped with that problem...

[humble]

Your taking my reply (and the game itself) out of context.

1st, the game isnt about bombing or stratagy or combined arms tactics. It's actually about air to air fighter combat....thats where the title came from. It's also not about "winning" the war either.

Now in their continuing efforts to broaden the appeal of the game (and make more money)[which as a good capitalist I agree with completely] the powers that be have added significant "fluff". Many including you, have become confused and view this "fluff" as an essential element of the game.

So.....

The following occurs.....

Some folks get tweaked since your simply getting in the way...the topic of your original post. Others simply try and explain why you get the reaction you did...

Recognize that this entire arquement exists with in the real world of combat aviation as well...and was summed up very nicely by a marine pilot from the korean war....

"there are only to kinds of pilots...fighters and targets"

or something to that effect.....

[Vudak]

Originally posted by rshubert

Pal, tactically you would get killed on day one.  So would I.  We are not elite, highly trained fighter pilots.  We do not use the level of mission planning, cooperation, and teamwork that even a third world airforce would use.  Being good at this game and fifty cents will get you a cup of coffee from the machine in the break room.

I dunno... I thought I read on this website (under, "About Us" or something of that nature) that Hitech actually won a ride in a P51 Mustang by coming out #1 in some sort of actual fighter competition.  I didn't realize that he was ever in the airforce (could've been I suppose, just haven't seen it mentioned).

'Course, if he wasn't ever in the Airforce, it would tend to bolster Humble's theory a bit, wouldn't you say?

[Morpheus]

And if you want to talk about arrogance, then explain why you are constitutionally incapable of posting anything that doesn't include a chest beating claim that those who disagree with you are somehow...inferior.

BLAHAHAHAHAHA

Pot... Meet kettle.

[FiLtH]

Well we're probably better than 99% of the world's population at virtual dogfighting. Some are probably better than some of the flight cadets just learning to fly. The difference is, someday they WILL be flying..in combat..for real. While the rest of us continue to fantasize about it each night.

  There are probably some real pilots out there who dont do very well in this game. There are probably subshop employees out there who are aces in here. Im quite sure if there was a war that required a draft, most of the guys in here would be in the trenches rather than flying real planes. "Mr. President...we've got Aces High on the line...our problems are solved...those guys are the best there are!".

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Morpheus
BLAHAHAHAHAHA

Pot... Meet kettle.

Not true, morph.  I don't have any problem with you doing our thing, as long as you don't have any problem with me doing mine.  The issue is the whole "base capture is evil because it ruins my fun" attitude you guys (and you know who you are) have developed.

We've gone through many iterations of this argument, and nobody has moved an inch from their position.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by Vudak
I dunno... I thought I read on this website (under, "About Us" or something of that nature) that Hitech actually won a ride in a P51 Mustang by coming out #1 in some sort of actual fighter competition.  I didn't realize that he was ever in the airforce (could've been I suppose, just haven't seen it mentioned).

'Course, if he wasn't ever in the Airforce, it would tend to bolster Humble's theory a bit, wouldn't you say?

I dunno.  Was he fighting real Air Force trained pilots?

[Edbert1]

I'd be willing to wager that at least half of the best sticks in AH would either be puking their guts out or doing the "funky chicken" after the first 5G+ sustained turn or definitely their first hard neg-G maneuver. That number may even be much higher and yes I am talking about myself. I have been to many cons and lets just say that many AHers are not exactly in the best physical condition

[FiLtH]

Thank you Edbert for the refreshing breeze of truth.

[rshubert]

Originally posted by humble
Your taking my reply (and the game itself) out of context.

1st, the game isnt about bombing or stratagy or combined arms tactics. It's actually about air to air fighter combat....thats where the title came from. It's also not about "winning" the war either.

Now in their continuing efforts to broaden the appeal of the game (and make more money)[which as a good capitalist I agree with completely] the powers that be have added significant "fluff". Many including you, have become confused and view this "fluff" as an essential element of the game.

So.....

The following occurs.....

Some folks get tweaked since your simply getting in the way...the topic of your original post. Others simply try and explain why you get the reaction you did...

Recognize that this entire arquement exists with in the real world of combat aviation as well...and was summed up very nicely by a marine pilot from the korean war....

"there are only to kinds of pilots...fighters and targets"

or something to that effect.....

From the AH website:

Aces High Game Features

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aces High II is a massive multi-player online combat simulation centered around the World War II air-war. Here are some of the highlights.

Accurate flight modeling of over 80 aircraft, vehicles, and boats from around the world.

Fight against hundreds of real players from around the world.

Multiple arenas with unique environments all different styles of gameplay.

Constant updates and additions keep the game fresh.

Create historical skins for your plane.

Start or join a squadron for even more fun.

Participate in special events recreating scenarios from World War II.

Learn from films you can record and view using the Aces High Film Viewer.

Design and build your own terrain with the Aces High Terrain Editor.

In game voice support.

The most flexible view system in the genre. Tailor it to your liking.

Full true 3D cockpits.

Customize your commands on the keyboard and the joystick.

In-game secure account management.

Auto-update in the game for all updates.

Auto-update for all new skins released for the game.

Free 8 player head to head over the Internet and LAN play.

Free 2 week online trial (no billing information needed).


End quote.

Nothing in there about this being intended for fighter planes only, is there?  

Want more?  Go to the AH index page, and look at the pretty P-51 at the top of the page.  Read the words in the upper left:

"welcome to the Internet's premier WWII combat experience"

Doesn't say "premier WWII furball simulator, does it?

Same box, left side:

"Get Started!

Engage in AIR LAND OR SEA combat..."  (my caps)

Are you getting the hint yet?

The game is NOT ALL ABOUT YOU.  It's about me, too.  And guys who only man vehicles.  And guys who man ship guns.

If you can't accept that (and yes, I am adressing all of you who think that base capture "just gets in the way", I suggest you go to the DA, or set up a server your way, or...

But get off my back.  I am truly tired of your whining about how I am ruining your online experience.

[Clifra Jones]

Originally posted by rshubert
Not true, morph.  I don't have any problem with you doing our thing, as long as you don't have any problem with me doing mine.  The issue is the whole "base capture is evil because it ruins my fun" attitude you guys (and you know who you are) have developed.

We've gone through many iterations of this argument, and nobody has moved an inch from their position.

Shub, 3 pages and I think your still not getting it. Base capturing is not EVIL. Especially if it's done right. I think there are a few points that make the land grab aspect of the game frustrating for some.

1. The FH porkers: Guys who fly in, in either Buffs of jabo planes, pork the FHs and leave. There is no point in this and it just kills the fight that SOME people are enjoying

2. The Base Flatteners: These guys come in and flatten everything in sight, FH, VH, Troops, Ord, Grandma Cottage. Sure they capture the base but what they have is a completely useless piece of land!

3. The Gross Incompatents: These are the guys who will take 2, 3, 4 hours trying to capture a base and fail to do so.  You can easily tell when your at a base with these guys. They will fail to take down the VH but take down the FHs, they never seem to have troops standing by, if the FHs are up you will see 4 or 5 of them chase an LA7 miles away from the base leaving thier CAP, lastly, as soon as any number of enemy planes either get up from the base or come in from near by bases they get frustrated(scared) and leave.

Of all of these #1 is the most frustrating. I can't tell you how many times my squad has put together a mission to take a base and have one of these "heros" come by and pork the field. Even when you tell them NOT TO! I can't tell you how many times my squad has been rolling across the map taking base after base, using the captured base to launch to the next, creating some nice air-to-air fights in the process, only to have some "toolshead hero" pork the latest base for no reason, killing our advance.

The land grab game, when done right, can generate some really good air-to-air engagements. Unfortunatly, in too many instances its done terribly wrong.

[SlapShot]

Not true, morph. I don't have any problem with you doing our thing, as long as you don't have any problem with me doing mine. The issue is the whole "base capture is evil because it ruins my fun" attitude you guys (and you know who you are) have developed.

What you fail to see is that the crux of the whole debate is GRIEFERS !!!

As I have noted before ... nothing twists our nipples more than ...

Some loser(s) taking down all the FHs when a furball exists and has been brewing between 2 fields for a length of time without the front ever really moving and being a threat to either side.

Some landgrabbin' bastage(s) get so pissed off that too many "resources" are being used for furballin' (seen it on Country Channel many times) and not concentrating on taking bases ... soooo ... to put an end to that, they flatten the FHs. I have seen this happen too many times.

Or ... there is a CV off the coast and a furball is brewing over the water ... there is sufficiant numbers of fighters from the land base, that the base is never really in jeopardy but noooooo ... someone decides that is time to end that fun and low-level dive bombs the CV ... even after being asked NOT to take out the CV but PLEASE take out the destroyer. Some say ... well LVTs started spawing ... well ... that is pure iciing on the cake for GVers and those who love to pop them like grapes in IL-2s ... they love every minute of it so the LVTs really aren't a threat.

Those that participate in the "land grab" can and do "grief" the furballers. Now please tell me how "furballers" can so easily "grief" the land grabbers ... please enlighten me.

[dedalos]

Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Shub, 3 pages and I think your still not getting it. Base capturing is not EVIL. Especially if it's done right. I think there are a few points that make the land grab aspect of the game frustrating for some.

1. The FH porkers: Guys who fly in, in either Buffs of jabo planes, pork the FHs and leave. There is no point in this and it just kills the fight that SOME people are enjoying

2. The Base Flatteners: These guys come in and flatten everything in sight, FH, VH, Troops, Ord, Grandma Cottage. Sure they capture the base but what they have is a completely useless piece of land!

3. The Gross Incompatents: These are the guys who will take 2, 3, 4 hours trying to capture a base and fail to do so.  You can easily tell when your at a base with these guys. They will fail to take down the VH but take down the FHs, they never seem to have troops standing by, if the FHs are up you will see 4 or 5 of them chase an LA7 miles away from the base leaving thier CAP, lastly, as soon as any number of enemy planes either get up from the base or come in from near by bases they get frustrated(scared) and leave.

Of all of these #1 is the most frustrating. I can't tell you how many times my squad has put together a mission to take a base and have one of these "heros" come by and pork the field. Even when you tell them NOT TO! I can't tell you how many times my squad has been rolling across the map taking base after base, using the captured base to launch to the next, creating some nice air-to-air fights in the process, only to have some "toolshead hero" pork the latest base for no reason, killing our advance.

The land grab game, when done right, can generate some really good air-to-air engagements. Unfortunatly, in too many instances its done terribly wrong.

Thank you CJ.  Thats what we have been saing.  Maybe he will be able to comprehent what you wrote  since you are not a BK.

Droping the FH right before a capture or just because you happen to have ord on you, is at best useless whether you like furbaling or fighting the war.

[rshubert]

You guys don't seem to agree with each other.  One says the "land grab" is ok under certain circumstances, the other says the land grab is bad, and the third agrees with number one.

Oh, I do "get it".  You boys each want the game to be played for your personal enjoyment by all concerned.  I "grief" you.  So sorry.  I ruin your furball.  Too bad.

You get this:  you don't own the game.  You have no moral superiority over me or other "land grab" players.  You do NOT have the right to demand that I conform to your idea of how the game should be played, other than by influencing the outcome of the game IN THE GAME.

If the land grabbers bug you, shoot us down.  Pork our ordnance.  DO SOMETHING!  But quit kvetching about how others choose to do in their time, with their money.