Author Topic: Bush & Global Warming  (Read 5075 times)

Offline 1776

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Bush & Global Warming
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2001, 12:10:00 AM »
He heee, I just found 2 middle-of-the-roaders  Watch out for the traffic, you are going to get run over


Offline Fatty

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« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2001, 12:51:00 AM »
Welp, a green planet is all well and good, except when confronted with the fact that California is out of energy right now, and looking at very serious rate hikes (which they wouldn't allow the suppliers to do, but that's another thread) and continued rolling blackouts.

The upper west coast, as well as New York, are looking at similar situations in their near future.

OPEC has just announced a reduction in oil supply.

The hardships in CA coincide with a serious downturn in the tech market, pushing under companies that might have pulled through (further undercutting any tax revenue to subsidize energy costs).

In short, Bush was not exactly out in left field when he said it's not the best time to implement further restrictions.

Does it bother me that Europe is in a huffy because we're worrying about our own problems?  Not particularly.

[This message has been edited by Fatty (edited 04-03-2001).]

Offline straffo

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« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2001, 03:01:00 AM »
I cannot undertsand how a country like USA can allways be late  
The American have the money and the technologie to do great things but they fail on some important problem like "Gun control" (IMO it's to late to for real gun control ala Eureopean) ,"Education" and now "Ecologie".
You have a great country with wonderfull ressources human potential... landscape and so on but you fail to plan anything for the future ... too bad  

Offline ElLobo

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« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2001, 04:02:00 AM »
I think I read somewhere that there is a plan to actually shade the sunlight that falls upon the earth by placing large light reflecting panels between the earth and sun. I think that could probably solve the global warming problem in the near term. I'm not convinced myself that Global Warming is not a natural cycle. The current warm period that the earth is enjoying is just a respit in between Ice Ages. Our sun may be a long cycle variable star, none of us have been around long enough to know that or not.

Having said that, Dubya SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME the russians are patrolling with Bears again, started on George W's inauguration day. Now this thing in china with them ramming one of our spy planes, not to mention the escalating violence in the middle east. And whos in Charge? George W.
We may see some serious heat soon of the thermonuclear variety. Unavoidable I'm afraid as resources diminish and population increases there will have to be at some point a "Culling of the Herd".

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Mk10 225th

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« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2001, 10:16:00 AM »
"He heee, I just found 2 middle-of-the-roaders  Watch out for the traffic, you are going to get run over"


Simply being on one side or another is never the real answer.  Extremists may have a lot of buddies to drink beer with, but rather than solving problems, they simply wind up throwing mud at each other instead of moving forward.


"Welp, a green planet is all well and good, except when confronted with the fact that California is out of energy right now, and looking at very serious rate hikes"


I guess if that is where you insist on living, you're going to have to deal with it.  I'm not sure why with the incredible amount of sunshine that state gets, and the winds coming in off of the Pacific, that they haven't explored more alternative energy sources like windmills and solar power.  If you can afford to pay $300,000 for a 2 bedroom house, you ought to be able to cough up a couple thousand more for a windmill or a solar collector to help offset your energy needs.

Since that would be cheaper to a home owner than buying all their power for electricity and heating water, etc., how about a program that looks into lower interest rates, higher qualification ratios (to help offset the cost of alternative energy avenues) or other incentives to homebuyers who implement these technologies?


"In short, Bush was not exactly out in left field when he said it's not the best time to implement further restrictions."


Bush's main problem is that the ONLY policies he's following in regard to energy fall solely on the "supply side" of things.  He looks for quick answers now, and doesn't seem to realize that time marches on.  Unfortunately, he's got the insight and vision of a grilled cheese sandwich.  


"Having said that, Dubya SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME the russians are patrolling with Bears again, started on George W's inauguration day. Now this thing in china with them ramming one of our spy planes, not to mention the escalating violence in the middle east. And whos in Charge? George W."


I am serious when I say that I am not trying to start a fight here.  Starting a fight here is W-A-Y too easy.

But, I will say that unfortunately, this is a pretty blatant statement that many other world leaders do not respect our current president.

I think it is important that we all keep a clear head at this time.  I hope Mr. Bush's handlers will teach him a little diplomacy, and coach him in ways that will garner him respect from someone else besides Tony Blair.

Managing world politics is not like managing an oil field.  You don't just pull up in a shiny 4WD pick-up, get out, and yell at everyone around you, telling them you're going to kick their bellybutton if they don't do what you want them to.

You tell everybody everything that they know, but you don't tell them everything YOU know.  Sometimes it may seem like you're doing one thing, but you're really accomplishing another.

Europeans, Asians, Indians, and every other country on Earth older than 225 years, have been doing it this way for centuries untold.

For someone who's supposedly got the best cabinet in the world, they are scaring the toejam out of me.  I expected a hell of a lot more out of Cheney & Co.

Let's just write this off as "the rookie jitters", and hope he gets a little calmed down, and starts receiving respect instead of disdain from other world leaders, especially those who don't wave his flag, just because he's the American President.

You have to give respect to get it, and "everyone's nemesis" Clinton showed that as long as you give respect, you don't have to back down, or start a nuclear war.  A lot of really nasty people in the world may have hated Clinton, but they didn't think he was a fool.

It's time for Bush's cabinet to step up, and start giving him "worldly" advice, instead of trying to act like the world is a construction site, and he's the foreman.

This is a time where, if it occured in Clinton's administration (which it wouldn't have, because he had more respect on a world-wide basis), Conservatives would have started roasting him.

When the chips were down, they would attack him in front of the world.  Unfortunately, this backfired for them, and instead of being respected by the world, they were thought of as opportunist jackals, and dismissed as being people who really had nothing of value to say.

And actually, what's going on right now may be a subconscious spill-over from those events.

I'm getting a little nervous about all this stuff too.  For me, I propose something entirely different than what we've been doing for the last eight years.

Instead of lambasting this president, let's try and guide him.  

Instead of hurling insults, let's try throwing ideas at him instead.

I think later on today I'll e-mail the White House.  I'll let Mr. Bush know I totally disagree with about everything he stands for, but that I think at this juncture in our history, it is important that we stand together as Americans, and that he in turn should think carefully before he speaks and acts.

It's a big world out there.  They've been doing this toejam a lot longer than we have.  

If we speak our minds intelligently to our president, and keep our infighting to ourselves instead of serving it up on the World Platter, maybe we can get through this with as little damage to our country as possible.

I never thought I'd feel this way, but with the way things are going right now, I think it's time to put down our slingshots and barbed instruments, and try solidarity, clarity, and intelligence for a change.

Mk

Offline Fatty

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« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2001, 12:38:00 PM »
Mk, there's a difference between ignoring the environment and not wanting to add regulations during a period of rising energy costs and a slowing economy.  Though you may get your wish, factories may end up closing anyway.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2001, 01:09:00 PM »
"the russians are patrolling with Bears again, started on George W's inauguration day. Now this thing in china with them ramming one of our spy planes, not to mention the escalating violence in the middle east. And whos in Charge? George W."


What a load of hogwash!

Bush forced the Russians to resume Recon flights in Bears?

Bush forced the Chinese to ram one of our Recon aircraft?

Bush forced the Palestinians and the Israelis to step up their tit-for-tat murderous squabbling?

All in the first 100 days, eh? Why don't you toss in that he started the economic downturn last April?

Recon flights have been going on for a long, long time. They start and stop in some areas but they generally are always in operation. We haven't had a real problem with the Russians on EITHER side of the Recon fence since about the mid '60's.

Recon is a pretty benign activity that all "powers" participate in. It's only when one country starts acting outside of the boundaries that problems occur. That would be China, in this instance.

In short.... hogwash.

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Octavius

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« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2001, 11:42:00 PM »
Augh...  The Israel and Palestine squabble goes back over 2000 years guys.  Learn some history.. everything is connected in a small way.  Learn about the people and what they value and you'll understand why the people of the world do what they do.  Mostly all of the disputes in the world that exist today can be traced back veeeeeerrrry far.  History, my friends, history is the key.  

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Offline leonid

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« Reply #83 on: April 04, 2001, 03:42:00 AM »
It's times like these that really make me despise capitalism, aka justified greed.  It's really nothing more than the flip side of communism with a much better populace control mechanism - consumerism.  Modern day equivalent of 'Bread and the Circus'.  We're going to burn this planet for every last Golly-gee dollar that it's worth, so help us God.
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Offline Maniac

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« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2001, 07:56:00 AM »
"Is there proof that the CO2 increase is causing the temperature increase? None at all. Only unproven theories and models. And some models show the opposite - that there are mechanisms whereby increased CO2 concentration can cause a decrease in temperature."

Eh this is EARTH we are talking about... Polution is bad and thats final, why not be safe then sorry?

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Offline Fatty

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« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »
At what cost Maniac?

If you want full ecological purity, you need to turn off that computer, and any other electronic devices in your home.  You need to get rid of the car, and stop eating foods that must be cooked.  Fires are out as well.  Pulling water out of the ground is disturbing the ecological balance as well, stop bathing, and drinking from your faucet.

Definately no housing, as that requires deforestation.  Go find a nice cave, or dig a decent hole, and enjoy yourself.


Ahh, that's not what you meant?  You mean we have to find a balance between our needs and pollution?  Interesting concept.