Hi Chairboy,
Originally posted by Chairboy
I agree with Westy's list, looks about right. This is not to say that these posters are somehow evil, just that they have shown a willingness to focus on generalizing Islam as a religion inherently violent and suggesting that Christianity is virtuous.
Everyone on this board is entitled to their own opinion, and I believe that I'm entitled to mine that those and others are selectively blind to the 'indiscretions' of Christian extremists until forced to respond. I expect Seagoon, for example, to post shortly that Pat Robertson, while a charismatic leader with his own opinion, does not automatically represent the views of Christianity in general. Of course, if this happens, then it's certainly odd considering his voluminous written history equating Islam with evil and suggesting that, unlike Christianity, it is unavoidably violent and can bring only grief to the world. An opinion, of course, fueled by the actions of an extremely small but vocal group of muslim extremists.
I respect that Seagoon is no sockpuppet, and that he honestly believes himself to be a font of balance and objectivity, but that doesn't equate to automatic acceptance of everything he says to, pardon the language, be 'gospel'.
I hope you will forgive me for being late to the conversation, I had been debating staying out entirely as I believe this is and will remain a discussion generating more light than heat, but since it doesn't seem to be going away anytime soon.
First, please allow me to address your comments in reverse order.
Actually, I do not claim to be a font of balance and objectivity. Quite the opposite, I am not moderate at all when it comes to the Christian faith, I am in fact quite fanatical and have always taught and
preached that it is Christ's calling to all those who would be his disciples to be as fervent as possible in following Him. In fact throughout the bible, Christ indicates that being moderate or lukewarm in one's Christianity is far worse than not believing at all:
"And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ' These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth." (Rev. 3:14-16)
"He who is not with Me is against Me, and he who does not gather with Me scatters." (Luke 11:23)
"He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it." (Mat. 11:37-39)Therefore I strive to be as a devoted to Christ, His Word, and His People, as I possibly can. I am willing to sacrifice all on his behalf, I will proclaim His gospel message without compromise or man-pleasing as a dying man to a dying world. I will love the sheep he has entrusted to my care with all my heart and strength and be willing to lay down my own life for them. I will remember that as I serve and work for them, I am serving my Lord. I will remember always that I am a poor blind beggar who received the bread of heaven from the hands of the king, and as my cup has overflowed with mercy I will seek to extend mercy to others. I will not do these things "moderately" but will seek to serve and love the Lord my God with all my heart, with all my soul, and with all my mind.
Now the way this Christian "extremism" differs so markedly from Islam is that while the Christian is called to be willing to take up his Cross and lay down his life for Christ, and in the case of Shepherd's, the sheep. He is never called to
kill for Christ. The Christian faith simply does not have a doctrine in any way comparable to that of Jihad or the rule of conversion, subjugation, or death.
Chairboy, what you seem to be unwilling to acknowledge is that when a fanatical evangelical following the commands of the Bible enters the Muslim world, he does so preaching the gospel, bringing medical and other humanitarian assistance, and ultimately being willing to die to bring light, grace, and peace. On the other hand, when a fanatical Muslim following the commands of the Quran and the Hadiths enters the Christian world, he does so with an entirely different spirit.
In any event the only ultimate question worth asking is not "Which religion seems nicer?" but rather "Which religion is true?" Both Islam and Christianity insist upon the truth of their own claims and say that other claims are false. I know that this is immaterial to those who believe that all religious claims are false, but for those who are actually more concerned about eternity than time, this is a paramount consideration. So yes, I am concerned because Islam makes life on this earth a more wretched experience, but I am far more concerned because I believe the bible when it says that there is only one way to heaven, and that Islam isn't the way.
Now as to Pat Robertson, as it so happens, Pat and I have more theological differences than Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims, so I don't feel particularly constrained to make excuses for him. Aside from his belief in continuing direct revelation (for instance, when Pat says "God told me" and he means spoke to him directly, I have no problem answering, "Not so.") he and I also differ markedly on the issue of the spirituality of the church. One doesn't assess and then praise or condemn Christianity and Islam by the statements of a few adherents, one assesses that religion by the founding documents and the life, teachings, and actions of the founder(s).
So when we do that, we find that the Christian faith nowhere endorses extra-legal assassination of rival political leaders, and Christ certainly did not engage in anything even close to that, nor did he advocate it as a method of advancing the faith or suppressing dissent.
So if as he is speaking as a Pastor, Pat commends assassination, he is out on his own, saying that which the Word does not [It is worth noting however, that the USA has accepted asssassination as a tool of foriegn policy in the past so secular leaders have not always been exactly scrupulous about following the law of God either] and the Christian faith cannot be held liable for his statements.
However, Muhammad, on the other hand used and commended assassination during his lifetime, and therefore while a legitimate claim can be made that Christianity is in fact anti-assassination, no such claim can be made for Islam.
For more on this, please click here:
Muhammad and the Assassinations of Asama Bint Marwan and Abu Afak - SEAGOON
