Author Topic: Discernment vs Judgment? (Read 1415 times)

Sakai · « **on:** August 23, 2005, 09:11:25 AM »

Sanctity of life? Well, some of the time, anyway
Pat Robertson is all about the sanctity of human life -- except when he isn't. The Christian Coalition founder and Christianist political activist said on his television show Monday that it's time for the United States to stop Venezuela from becoming "a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism.'' How do you do that? Assassinate the president, Robertson says.

"We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator," the Associated Press quotes Robertson as saying. "It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

OK, so he was really talking about a CIA-orchestrated coup or something, not the assassination of Hugo Chavez, right? Wrong. "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it," Robertson said. ''It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war . . . and I don't think any oil shipments will stop."

Chairboy · « **Reply #1 on:** August 23, 2005, 09:38:04 AM »

Religion's ability to breed crazy people no longer amazes me.

The sanguine attitude on this board from the Christians who fail to see the similarities between Christian and Muslim extremists, however, does.

"Oh," they say dismissively, "that's different."

Toad · « **Reply #2 on:** August 23, 2005, 09:42:20 AM »

Chairboy, help me out here.

Could you list maybe 5 or 10 of the "Christians who fail to see the similarities between Christian and Muslim extremists" that post on this BBS?

Because I'd like to ask them directly what they think of Robertson's Chavez comment.

Thanks.

Chairboy · « **Reply #3 on:** August 23, 2005, 09:49:24 AM »

I've got to be pretty careful here. I don't want to troll, and I don't want to make posts that offend or disrespect other members.

I believe that those who hold the publicly stated opinions that I've mentioned will post on their own.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #4 on:** August 23, 2005, 10:34:12 AM »

This is allready being covered in another thread.
How bout leaving Christianity and religion out of it?

BTw, I don`t believe a coup was mentioned. No need for it when you cut off the snake`s head instead of the tail.

Westy · « **Reply #5 on:** August 23, 2005, 10:44:34 AM »

" How bout leaving Christianity and religion out of it?"

That's impossible when that nutjob Robertson is a Christian extremist.

"I'd like to ask them directly what they think of Robertson's Chavez comment. "

A gaggle of em can be found in the topic from July "Comparing Islam to Christianity"

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155078&highlight=white

Toad · « **Reply #6 on:** August 23, 2005, 12:09:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Chairboy
I've got to be pretty careful here. I don't want to troll, and I don't want to make posts that offend or disrespect other members.

I believe that those who hold the publicly stated opinions that I've mentioned will post on their own.

No problem. Just send me a Private Message listing those "Christians who fail to see the similarities between Christian and Muslim extremists" that post on this BBS.

I'll take it from there.

There'll will be no troll, no post that may offend or disrespect other members.

Unless you were just posting an unsupported (-able) blanket charge against the famous "them"?

Thanks again.

Toad · « **Reply #7 on:** August 23, 2005, 12:11:15 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy
A gaggle of em can be found in the topic from July "Comparing Islam to Christianity"

[/b]

Since I'm not sure of how you and Chairboy qualify posters to be "them" and since there's a "gaggle of 'em", perhaps you could also PM me with a short list of the worst of "them"?

I'll keep it private.

Thanks!

Westy · « **Reply #8 on:** August 23, 2005, 12:42:14 PM »

In the context of the discussion on this weboard for me "them" are the people who proselytize Christianity. In a "we're good and righteous while they're evil and oppressive" kind of way. (fwiw I feel disdain for all religions)

I do not have PM"s enabled as I have not yet found the need to go private with any discussion to date. But to be plain about it the "handles" of some people I feel are "them" would be rshubert, seagoon, simaril, lasersailor184, hacksaw1, bustr and SOB.

(Added SOB as IMO this topic could use some kind of accelerant)

Jackal1 · « **Reply #9 on:** August 23, 2005, 12:49:11 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy
" How bout leaving Christianity and religion out of it?"

That's impossible when that nutjob Robertson is a Christian extremist.

"I'd like to ask them directly what they think of Robertson's Chavez comment. "

You answered that yourself with the second quote.
It`s not even close to impossible. Robertson may be a nutjob and can be viewed as such without religion being brought into it. He doesn`t speak for , nor represent the majority or anywhere close to the majority of Christians or any other religion. It doesn`t enter the picture.
What does enter the picture is the statement.
I agree he is a nutjob.
I also think that the no assasination crap is just that, crap. If someone is giving us a load of it, off em. Simple. Saves lives, money, etc. After all , it`s been done before so pretending it is against policy is a wagon load of BS.

Chairboy · « **Reply #10 on:** August 23, 2005, 01:07:24 PM »

I agree with Westy's list, looks about right. This is not to say that these posters are somehow evil, just that they have shown a willingness to focus on generalizing Islam as a religion inherently violent and suggesting that Christianity is virtuous.

Everyone on this board is entitled to their own opinion, and I believe that I'm entitled to mine that those and others are selectively blind to the 'indiscretions' of Christian extremists until forced to respond. I expect Seagoon, for example, to post shortly that Pat Robertson, while a charismatic leader with his own opinion, does not automatically represent the views of Christianity in general. Of course, if this happens, then it's certainly odd considering his voluminous written history equating Islam with evil and suggesting that, unlike Christianity, it is unavoidably violent and can bring only grief to the world. An opinion, of course, fueled by the actions of an extremely small but vocal group of muslim extremists.

I respect that Seagoon is no sockpuppet, and that he honestly believes himself to be a font of balance and objectivity, but that doesn't equate to automatic acceptance of everything he says to, pardon the language, be 'gospel'.

One final note, while I believe us all to be entitled to our opinion, I am very careful not to suggest that this is the same as having some right to post whatever I want to this board. HTC is offering this area, and I wish to respect the rules that they have put in place. Consequently, I will continue to strive for avoiding personal attacks while I enjoy vigorous debate. I was unwilling to bring specific posters into this, but I feel that the confrontational basis of your challenge limited my options. I hope that my post does not exceed the very reasonable standards established by HTC.

Westy · « **Reply #11 on:** August 23, 2005, 01:08:43 PM »

Sorry but the radical is linked at the hip with Christianity. Anything he declares publicly, as he has, is tantamount to being delivered from a pulpit.

I wonder if your stance would be the same if some cleric named Abdullah Hackensackensein annoucned he was advocating killing the leader of some Western country because he felt that said leader was a threat to Mecca and a danger to Islam?

Robertson only gets recognition for what he said because he is a leader in the Christian community. To make it appear otherwise is to try "Rove" the issue.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #12 on:** August 23, 2005, 02:23:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy
Sorry but the radical is linked at the hip with Christianity. Anything he declares publicly, as he has, is tantamount to being delivered from a pulpit.

You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I totaly disagree.
I beleive you are selling the public short by suggesting this. Robertson does not speak for Christians. His word is not taken as gospel by the general public, Christian or otherwise.

Oh...and if any leader was threatening one of our leaders, I`d say off him.

Are you suggesting that threats such as this hasn`t been made?

Westy · « **Reply #13 on:** August 23, 2005, 02:42:17 PM »

I think you've headed out to left field. Disageement is fine but I have no idea where you're going. I didn't suggest the public was dumb or that Robertson speaks for all christians. Anymore than the when the Pope, Rev Moon, Ayatollah Whoever or al-Zarqawi speeks do they speak for all in thier respective religions.

Fact is though he IS a MAJOR "Christian" figurehead.
Fact is he is a fundamental, extremist nutjob and is calling for the murder of a head of state.
Fact is he is a hypocrit and prrof of how in this day and age Christianity has thier extreme, hate mongoring radicals

And I think it ironic that if he were a cleric from the Middle East you about a dozen others (add in the Christian prostheltysers) on this board would calling for a nucular bomb to be dropped on the lot of em.

"if any leader was threatening one of our leaders, I`d say off him."

So if some Islamic state puts out a decree calling for Robertsons beheading that'd be ok? (IMO it is but wondering about yours)

Westy

Jackal1 · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2005, 03:03:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Westy
I think you've headed out to left field. Disageement is fine but I have no idea where you're going. I didn't suggest the public was dumb or that Robertson speaks for all christians. Anymore than the when the Pope, Rev Moon, Ayatollah Whoever or al-Zarqawi speeks do they speak for all in thier respective religions.

If anyone is in left field it is not me on this one. Got your glove and cap?

Not only does Robertson not speak for ALL Christians, he doesn`t speak for the general popualtion or even close to a majority of Christian, population, etc.

Quote

Fact is though he IS a MAJOR "Christian" figurehead.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Wrong! He is no more of a Christian figurehead than I am.

Quote

Fact is he is a fundamental, extremist nutjob and is calling for the murder of a head of state.

He is a nutjob IMHO, nothing more. He is calling for the assasination. It carries no more weight than if I asked for it. He is not a leader nor a decision maker for our country in any form or fashion.
I happen to agree that assasination would cure a lot of probs in some cases. Hard to follow stupid rules when your opponent will not even look at or have any interests in the 'rule book"
As for as robertson goes...even a blind squirrel gets a nut occasionaly.

Quote

And I think it ironic that if he were a cleric from the Middle East you about a dozen others (add in the Christian prostheltysers) on this board would calling for a nucular bomb to be dropped on the lot of em.

Being a cleric in ME or anyplace else has nothing to do with it. That is the point I am making. Nothing to do with religion. It`s what they call for. I could care less what religion they are if it is a threat to our country. A threat is a threat, period.
No need for a nuclear bomb or any massive measures if the snake was cut off at the head instead of the tail.

Quote

So if some Islamic state puts out a decree calling for Robertsons beheading that'd be ok? (IMO it is but wondering about yours)

Talk about your left field.

If any state, country, individual calls for any beheading of anyone in my country it would not be OK with me. If one is threatened we all are. Islamic has nothing to do with it. A threat is a threat.